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GP experiences

GP experiences

Old Apr 24th 2014, 7:03 pm
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Default GP experiences

Hi

I was wondering if anyone could help me with the decision making process to come to Canada. I am a GP in the UK
Any info on how the practice of family medicine compares to the current situation in UK would be appreciated.

I am interested in the various roles a GP plays in the Canadian system, are they independent businesses or do they work for an organisation ? Is the rename ration similar ?

Thanks
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Old Apr 24th 2014, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

Originally Posted by johnybravo
Hi

I was wondering if anyone could help me with the decision making process to come to Canada. I am a GP in the UK
Any info on how the practice of family medicine compares to the current situation in UK would be appreciated.

I am interested in the various roles a GP plays in the Canadian system, are they independent businesses or do they work for an organisation ? Is the rename ration similar ?

Thanks
Hello and welcome to BE!

You will find some useful info on this thread: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781626

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Old Apr 24th 2014, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

Hi JB,

My husband is a Family Physician here, we came over in January. There are lots of different ways in which you can get paid, but essentially you are self employed, so annual leave is not paid, sickness etc. Although my husband pointed out that was the same in the UK. He was a partner in a practice.

I can answer more questions if you have any more specific ones.

He's loving it by the way. Stress levels are not anywhere near as bad as back home, and he's plenty busy so income on the second month here already covers what he made back home and my income also. He can also choose what hours he works. It seems all very good so far.
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Old Apr 24th 2014, 9:33 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

Hi

Thanks for that

I know you haven't been there for long, but have you had any thoughts on how the pensions in the uk compare to the set up in Canada

I understand you have to take out a private pension plan
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Old Apr 24th 2014, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

There is no pension simply. We haven't looked into it yet..
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Old Apr 25th 2014, 1:15 am
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Default Re: GP experiences

Hi
I have had just had to get an answer to whether we are employed or self employed. Accountant said employed- but we employed by our own incorporation.Having said that we only pay ourselves a salary part of the year- to maximize CPP ( Canada Pension Plan) contributions and maximise matching RRSP payments from the BCMA ( I talking BC here).
The rest of the year we pay ourselves dividends.
All the money we earn, whether from MSP (BC healthcare) or privately goes in the incorporation. A wise soul would keep as much in it as possible as taxed at only ? 13%. I'm not wise nor an accountant so my info may be wrong!
Pension wise- you want to put some in RRSPs, we do it to match our BCMA contributions. But there are differing opinions as to whether to put in maximum allowed by CRA, mainly as I see it- if you draw out the money- you have to pay much higher tax on it, negating the benefit of the RRSP.
Otherwise most local doctors seem to invest in whatever way they feel best.
Reading UK GP sites, it would appear that Superan is not the amazing pension it used to be, I've seen advice to get out of it, which would never have happened in the past. I suppose the point is you have to be more proactive here- like anyone else in the private sector and maybe some GPs in the UK now.
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Old Apr 25th 2014, 2:17 am
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Default Re: GP experiences

Originally Posted by snoopdawg
Hi
I have had just had to get an answer to whether we are employed or self employed. Accountant said employed- but we employed by our own incorporation.Having said that we only pay ourselves a salary part of the year- to maximize CPP ( Canada Pension Plan) contributions and maximise matching RRSP payments from the BCMA ( I talking BC here).
The rest of the year we pay ourselves dividends.
All the money we earn, whether from MSP (BC healthcare) or privately goes in the incorporation. A wise soul would keep as much in it as possible as taxed at only ? 13%. I'm not wise nor an accountant so my info may be wrong!
Pension wise- you want to put some in RRSPs, we do it to match our BCMA contributions. But there are differing opinions as to whether to put in maximum allowed by CRA, mainly as I see it- if you draw out the money- you have to pay much higher tax on it, negating the benefit of the RRSP.
Otherwise most local doctors seem to invest in whatever way they feel best.
Reading UK GP sites, it would appear that Superan is not the amazing pension it used to be, I've seen advice to get out of it, which would never have happened in the past. I suppose the point is you have to be more proactive here- like anyone else in the private sector and maybe some GPs in the UK now.
Bejaysus. I'm sure you're a superb doctor, but writing posts along the lines of prescriptions (i.e. incomprehensibly) and promulgating such inaccurate financial advice is a bit worrying.
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Old Apr 25th 2014, 2:40 am
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Default Re: GP experiences

Given I'm trying to help someone your reply is somewhat uncalled for!
I adjust my language according to the person I'm addressing, if he/she has read the other thread, most of my post should make sense and they can always ask me to clarify the rest. I'm addressing another GP who hopefully is doing some research.
As to inaccurate, I'm not an accountant ( nor would I want to be) but the information is as accurate as I can be. Which bit is inaccurate? I would genuinely be interested , I have a natural mistrust of financial advice I'm given and would be happy to be corrected. Just to say it's misleading is neither helpful to the OP or others.
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Old Apr 25th 2014, 6:47 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the help

Terms like CPP and RSPS were quite alien , so I have looked them up

CPP sounds similar to the NHS pension, but I presume it is not a final salary scheme, for someone like myself who would be joining mid 40s would there be enough time to build up the fund ?

RRSP sounds like an ISA ,, is that right ?

Thanks
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Old Apr 25th 2014, 7:08 pm
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Default Re: GP experiences

Originally Posted by johnybravo
Hi everyone

Thanks for all the help

Terms like CPP and RSPS were quite alien , so I have looked them up

CPP sounds similar to the NHS pension, but I presume it is not a final salary scheme, for someone like myself who would be joining mid 40s would there be enough time to build up the fund ?

RRSP sounds like an ISA ,, is that right ?

Thanks
Not quite. It's a Government pension based on the amount of contributions you make.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/s.../pensions/cpp/

There is also Old Age Security - another Govt. pension based on how many years you have been in Canada.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/s...on/index.shtml

Guaranteed Income Supplement if you have a low income: http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/s...sions/oas/gis/

RRSP's are contributions made to a Registered Retirement Savings Plan.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/rrsp/

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Old Apr 26th 2014, 3:19 am
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Default Re: GP experiences

Originally Posted by johnybravo
Hi everyone

Thanks for all the help

Terms like CPP and RSPS were quite alien , so I have looked them up

CPP sounds similar to the NHS pension, but I presume it is not a final salary scheme, for someone like myself who would be joining mid 40s would there be enough time to build up the fund ?

RRSP sounds like an ISA ,, is that right ?

Thanks
I knew you would look it up- you just got the wrong answer!!
Shame we never had a reply correcting my mistakes. Most of my post was fact anyway.
Further to Siouxie's helpful ( as always) post, you can transfer your NHS pension into a QROPS ( look it up) fund over here. It means it will continue to grow , just you can't get the final salary scheme but I thought that was ending anyway? Even if it isn't, it would appear your income in the UK is plummeting anyway hence the tsunami of over 50's GPs retiring.

I'm guessing that your main concerns are
Will I earn more or less in Canada- answer- more ( assuming you work in a similar way to the average GP here)
Will I have a pension adequate to live on- yes, especially if you are in your mid 40's. If canny, you will be able to accumulate quite a bit in your business that you can invest as you see fit, you will have a partial CCP pension, a partial UK state pension, and your RRSPs containing your invested NHS pension and other funds you have put in and invested.
Will your day to day work as a GP be better or worse- better, chose your hours, days, work harder at home doing more computer stuff- referrals etc ( FYI- we type our own- a huge shock to me- there are some reasonable voice recognition programs though), patients generally much more appreciative- I'm not looking for medals but I'm forever hugged, told to enjoy my time off, holidays etc. We have the ability to fire people we really don't get on with if we feel their care is affected, or those who keep no showing, won't pay their bills etc. A good patient /GP relationship is deemed important and is easier to attain here. I like that. Not saying its all roses though! Complaints are fewer in number and much more sensibly dealt with.Home visits!- I occasionally spend an afternoon wandering around nursing homes ( if the office is quiet), mostly its all done via faxes. Actual patient house visit- 2 in almost 5 years!!!One of those I initiated, the other palliative care. I have patients who come to see me from Calgary ( about 350miles, Victoria- 300miles, Elkford 416miles and numerous other distant places, tbh its not really about me, merely the difficulty in finding a GP.

Does that help?
Ask more if you like. I am biased I think- reading posts on a certain GP rag in the UK has utterly convinced me we were right to move. I was heartened to see at least one rather outspoken candidate elected to the BMA, maybe she can rally the troops and save General practice in the UK!
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Old Apr 26th 2014, 5:47 am
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Default Re: GP experiences

Try asking this guy, he set up his blog to help folks like you:

http://gpincanada.tumblr.com/
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Old Apr 26th 2014, 7:10 am
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Smile Re: GP experiences

Originally Posted by Jon_b
Try asking this guy, he set up his blog to help folks like you:

http://gpincanada.tumblr.com/
There are two types of GPs working in Canada- the first as typified in the above blog. These GPs thrive on acute hospital based medicine mixed with their day to day family practice. They cover busy ER shifts and seem to work very long hours! And then there are the other group who purely work in Family Practice, in their offices/ clinics, doing what UK docs are used to doing without the interminable tick boxing and without the home visits. We leave the hospital acute ER/ acutely and often very unwell patients to specialists/ hospitalists who are best placed we feel to provide such acute care for our patients. I just felt that you needed to know that a significant proportion of Family Physicians especially in even smallish towns such as where we work in the Okanagan work very similarly to GPs in the UK. Neither way is right, just different. Just so you don't get put off thinking that you had to be an expert in trauma and ICU to work as a GP in Canada! Whatever floats your boat!
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