Tracym

That was exactly my take on it - I was a contractor for years. The higher hourly rate meant you saved up for vacations, sick time, etc.

Figures I recently read from a book on veterinary contracts said benefits were 25%. But then you have to figure in the employer's part of soc sec - so 30% is probably a good figure.

Of course, there can be a lot of tax advantages to contracting too...

oldskool

You have my sympathy. When I first came to the US I was concerned abd the lack of vacation and the potential for overtime. But I wanted to come here so I negotiated a number of things into my contract.

It was the worst mistake of my life. Not only was it rarely honored, but what I had was also highly begrudged by my employer. I ended up working 7 days a week for about a 9 month period. Sometimes I wouldn't go home, but would work through the night. In the worst case I was on the clock for 44 hours before going home to sleep.

I left. It wasn't pretty because it was a process that began when I started saying 'no' and it was a very difficult few months of my life from then on. But I got out when it was convenient to me and with my family intact (it took a tool on them too).

I took a job elsewhere that had much better benefits, including a more reasonable vacation allowance and I've never had the same issues since.

How important is Citizenship to you? If you wife is american, you'll get green cards easily enough. Do you really need to worry about citizen ship? If so, I would bide your time here and gain that security.

Whether you bide your time in the same job is another issue, but I would say that you shouldn't be dismayed by interviewing and offers you've had. If you don't like what they have potentially offered it doesn't seem too unreasonable to think that eventually, something more appropriate will come along.

More thoughts...have you tried changing career or even where you live? $19 an hour may not be so bad in a more affordable state.

ian1976

As with most things in the USA, the market for your skill set dictates your benefits.

I'm also in California and I'm lucky enough to get 25 PTO days per year. Sick days come out of these too, however, which doesn't really bother me as I hardly take any, although I guess it could be somewhat inconvenient if you get really sick and have used up your allowance.

Steerpike

I would not bank on the 'notice period' being honored ! Some things are easy for them to accommodate, others are legal issues. The notice period is one thing I would not expect them to give! Remember, you are probably getting more money overall ... that extra money is there, in part, to offset some of the 'challenges' of the US system - employment 'at will' being one such challenges! (edit) Although - if you are just transferring for a fixed period of time, and are returning to the same company, then you probably WILL stay on the same T&Cs ... .

Personally, as a manager here, I can't imagine dealing with a 3 month notice period! If we don't like how someone is performing, we get rid of them with 2 weeks notice and I have no problem with that.

Steerpike

You raise a good point. This is a rule of thumb I use - never try to negotiate something that is too exceptional, because over time, those exceptions become a source of annoyance to the employer.

I know people who have negotiated higher salaries at times when lots of people are quitting; kinda like, 'give me a big raise or I'll quit too'. Well, that works, but a couple of years later when the market changes, they are now the most vulnerable when its time to cut costs. I've also seen people negotiate very sweet deals on PTO and other benefits, then some new HR manager comes in and says, we need to get everyone on the same plan ... (there is a huge overhead involved in dealing with non-standard contracts, I've learned!) and again, if you don't agree to 'normalize', you make yourself vulnerable to being the first on the list for being let go when things get tough.

One of my former places of employment was taken over by Oracle, and they cut everyone's PTO down to the Oracle standard, without any negotiation; if you didn't sign a new agreement, you were assumed to be resigning ... it was that simple (technically, you had to get 're-hired' by Oracle as part of the takeover, and everyone had to sign a new employment agreement).

Personally, I've found that companies are VERY reluctant to negotiate on PTO (vacation), but will be very liberal with salary. I tried for 5 weeks on my latest job, but they would not budge; so I asked for an extra increase of 2/52 (~4%) instead and got it.

smeg

As has been said before - swings and roundabouts.

I am fortunate to have 20 days off, plus holidays - but even with less time off - I couldn't afford my home and land in the UK. We wouldn't have a nice car. We wouldn't be in a position to start a family (6 weeks and counting!).

I wouldn't be driving to Toronto or New York for a long weekend vacation either.

Of course, 2 weeks in Spain maybe whats important in your life - thats cool - for me though, I'm happy being able to afford more of a home.

Health care here sucks - thats for sure - but when it comes to time off and work attitudes I just see it as "different" rather than worse.

HighSpeedGrandma

Yes it definitely makes a difference when you get a decent vacation allowance too.
I think a lot of the issues arise as you get older. When I first came to America I LOVED it. Bigger houses, nicer cars, money went much further, swimming pools on virtually every complex whether it be apartment complex or private neighbourhood, and the weather was warm enough for you to actually swim in it in the summer, and not freeze!
I didn't have to pay health insurance, my job covered all of that. I had a good pay check, went on long lunches with the boss, went on business trips all over the place, was 'allowed' to listen to music at work, we could never do that in England.
The country seemed much more family orientated that England did, when my girls were young, so that was a great benefit from my perspective.
But now, 18 years later, the daughters are back in England, I have a totally different job where the benefits aren't as good.
I don't care about swimmng and swimming pools, besides it's too humid and hot to be out in the sun now, maybe that's just because I am not in my 30's any more.
I miss the food in England. It is costing me a pigging fortune to buy stuff via the internet and have it shipped to me. But it's worth it too. I miss Brit tv. Brit people. Brit accents. I miss so many silly little things.
I am not bothered about having a bigger house, or a flashier car,there are only the 2 of us so we don't really need all this space and I am used to driving old bangers after being married to my tight git first husband for 19 years. Although he always had the flashy car, I was the one with the old banger....Hmmmm....

I do like the 3 acres of land we have. I will miss that. I will probably be living in something the size of a garden shed back in England.
But as you get older your priorities change. I am thinking down the road when I am not working and I have no insurance. I have no real friends. Everyone is too busy working to get together much and when we do get together everyone usually goes home around 9pm.
I miss neighbours and friends 'popping in' for a cuppa.
What I loved years ago about America has lost it's appeal now basically.

And no matter what, at the end of the day your roots always seem to bring you back. We are creatures of habit and home is where the heart is and all that stuff....

Steerpike

Agree!

I lived in London (which I loved) before coming here, sharing a crappy house in a boring suburb with 4 others in order to make ends meet. I made #9,000 (pounds) per year (1983). I started looking to buy a flat, and was getting laughed at by real estate agents. I was given very little responsibility at work, and was treated like a peon. The head of the (small) company didn't talk to us, had his own bathroom, and I think we had to call him "Mr. blah". I worked with incompetent people who could not be fired due to the strict labor laws.

I then found myself a job in Silicon Valley, going from #9,000 to $30,000 (again, this was 1983!); I was able to rent an apartment in a great area of San Francisco, and shared with only 1 other person. In my work, I was treated as a complete equal with everyone including the head of the company, and was given tons of responsibility and respect. People were fired at the drop of a hat, but never anyone who I thought didn't deserve it ... and they replaced them with people who were better, which only made my job easier. My cost of living went down at the same time as my income went up, and I bought a condo in SF within 2 years.

In the Bay Area, the weather is better, the food is better, the people are more friendly ... etc etc. YES - there is a downside ... I don't get much PTO and it's a struggle to take that PTO due to busy schedules - but hell, I was so happy here when I first got here that just being here was like being on vacation! I've remained happy ever since, still loving my job, loving the place, the people, and feel that a bad policy towards PTO is 'noise' compared to all the benefits. But I'm in high-tech, which is a good field, and the Bay Area, which is an awesome place to live! YMMV ...

robin1234

Yes, yes, yes & yes to the above. I like our five acres... but weather/insects are a big issue for me, and I believe this applies to the entire eastern USA; it is simply too hot (and often humid) in the summer. And I live as far north as you can go, without being in Canada. My garden (sorry, "yard") is badly neglected because I simply cannot work out there when the temp is above about 78 degrees. Not just the temp, but I find myself increasingly intolerant of direct sunlight when the sun is high ... of course, the UK is much further north so even on a warm summer day there, the sun is lower in the sky.

These issues are important to me, because I've always valued outdoor pursuits (hiking, cycling, gardening, etc.) In the UK, you can do that stuff 365 days of the year, here you're constrained by summer heat - and, around here, a profoundly cold winter that is eight months long. Obviously, the west coast and many other part of the west and SW have more congenial climates... My point here is that obviously I'm not complaining about the USA, simply recognizing that different people have different priorities and interests, so get more satisfaction from one or the other place. I'm not boasting here, but I believe I'm pretty uninterested in material possessions - we don't have TV, I don't have a cell phone, our cars are both old bangers... I'd rather see the dosh accumulating in the retirement accounts. (And, we were able to pay for our childrens' college tuition without them having to get into debt.)

I actually envy my sister her two-up, two-down terraced house with a back garden that is probably 18ft by 50ft... she has it crammed full of interesting perennials that I can't grow here because of our extreme climate! And she can walk to the shops.. Boots, Tesco, M&S!!!

As you get older, even if you are in good general health medical expenses become routine rather than occasional. That means that comparing like with like, you'd get a better deal in England.. I'm fairly sure taxes are higher here anyway (federal, state, plus astronomical property and school taxes) even without adding in out-of-pocket medical costs. Then, let's say you want to retire at 60 or 62 ... clearly the UK would be a good choice, since in the US you have to wait till 65 for medicare.

Lord Lionheart

Agree with most of what you had to say. When I came here it was the old cliche of sun, sand and sex. Now give me a weekend in Paris, Barcelona or London, opposed to another same old day at the beach, the sun beating down gets old too after over 20 years of it. Like you we have very few real friends, parents are getting older. The other price to pay is that I have missed 10 nieces and nephews growing up. My view is that your first 5 years here are just a honeymoon period, the real test is when someone close is ill, you lose a job, miss family get togethers, can't go home every summer or Christmas etc. I guess that makes me high speed Grandpa

Steerpike

I went through a period of frequent returns back to Europe, getting $600 round-trip tix in March/October, and got quite used to the jet-lag (but I quickly switched from London to Rome/Madrid for better weather/food!). it satisfied my yearnings for the old country, and reminded me of why I liked it here so much. I now bring my family over here to visit, quite often. This year, my mum has been out for 5 weeks, my nieces are coming out with their boyfriends, and my bro is probably going to visit too; I pitch in with airfare etc. I consider the missed family gatherings to be a blessing - I have the perfect excuse ... and I've only been home once at Christmas (1989) and it will be my last - I could not believe how cold and damp it was!

I'm no longer that impressed by endless sunshine, but - I do still get a buzz when I wake up and see a blue sky, and can pretty much walk out 300 days of the year without a jacket or fear of rain. The endless gray skies, the constant threat of rain ... the cold winds ... day after day ... that always shocks me when I go back. I just got done talking with two good friends back home; they both tell me how utterly miserable this 'summer' has been in England ...

The future here, taking healthcare into account, is the one big concern for me. I have enough money now to retire at ~50, but if I retire then I have to get private insurance to cover me till 65, and that could be a challenge if there were pre-existing conditions involved (which there aren't for me, but are for my pertner). However, the biggest reason for my happiness here is the general level of optimism and I am optimistic enough myself to believe that something will work out on the healthcare side. I suspect I'll stay sufficiently employed to keep group coverage, or some other solution. (please let's not turn this into a healthcare debate ... tracy ... )

LL - is your partner from the UK? Would she be willing to move back to UK? My partner is Asian and has no desire to leave this area whatsoever so even if I wanted to return, it would be near impossible.

robin1234

Just to add this one thought to my earlier post; as someone who values outdoor recreation, one big difference between England and America for me is private property vs. public access. I know that here we have access in public areas like National Parks etc., but I don't think anything compares to the footpath and bridleway network in England, as well as areas such as common lands. I just feel I would be content without acreage in the UK, as there is usually a good footpath route or area of common land within walking distance.

HighSpeedGrandma

Tracym

LOL I wouldn't find anythere there to debate

robin1234

Makes me want to come and live on the west coast! It is true, English weather is often bleak, but (it seems to me) easier to overcome the cold/damp with warm clothes than trying to do stuff outdoors when it is 90 degrees and humid, or -30F and near-zero humidity -- the types of wether conditions commonly met with by folks away from the west coast and the desert SW.