knockoff nige

I think it's a bit easy for those of us lucky to be born into a first world country and live comfortably as well as having the ability to migrate without much hassle to another first world country, to dictate that those who are fleeing for asylum are doing it wrong or are chancing their arm and looking for too much of a good thing. They didn't choose their country of birth nor did they choose to live under the threat of abuse or witness abuse/murder of their family.

I think it's also too easy to say that it's saving lives by turning back these boats. They are coming, they are not stopping. Them getting on these boats puts their lives at risk. Sending them back on a better boat puts them at risk even more. They are heading back to living in fear.

On a side note, if I was a people smuggler, I'd send a piece of crap boat out every day if I was going to get a decent one for my efforts. That just seems like a silly idea. Also, what then happens to the piece of crap boat? Do the Australian Navy have to dispose of it?

GarryP

Which is where they may find themselves in illegal territory - intentionally putting asylum seekers at risk. So far they could claim that they are so close to Indonesia that the risk is minimal, but the first one that founders on rocks and Abbott is in the dock.

Mind, if we just wanted to save lives, we could more reasonably do it by accepting asylum applications on Indonesia. The aim is, in part, to put up a "Sod off" sign for those without the money to get on a plane. Hell, with abbott that's the whole of it.

What happens when the first boatload of asylum seekers resists the military and dares them to shoot? If I were a people smuggler, I'd take advantage of the close range to shore to get footage of the navy action via a streaming video from a phone - if the navy is in any way violent in the face of people claiming asylum, they are in deep, deep, water (sic).

Beoz

Dummy question here, but, surely it would be cheaper to buy a flight, rock up at one of the many International airports that exist in Australia and claim asylum, than it is to pay a person smuggler tens of thousands of dollars.

I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.

GarryP

Two things

First, it's not cheap to get on a plane.

Mainly however, it's not easy to get on the plane - you need passports, etc. as well as other stuff (ETA etc.). If you don't have it/can't get it, then you're stuffed.

Pollyana

They won't. No airline will allow them to board without a valid visa and passport.

Common practice is to then shred the (usually tourist) visa and passport once on board, dispose of them down the toilet during the flight and claim asylum on arrival.

The Bloke

Obviously never lived in PNG....."persecuted, starved, beaten, raped, tortured" that sounds like a normal day in some parts of the PNG.......

I know people who have lived there. One bloke who lived in the country for several years, once ended up with 7 spears in the back (some in the back of the seat) of his Landrover as he drove through a village......

Beoz

Its cheaper than paying a people smuggler, but I'll take your point on the passport.

Beoz

I take it that's for foreigners only right?

If it was for locals then they would be fleeing in droves.

The Bloke

No, they just do the same back.....a lot of clan violence still happens.....

The guy I know accidently clipped a pig......he didn't stop, just planted the foot on the accelerator and.....

aussietobe

Its way cheaper to come on a plane than on a boat. But they need to use their travel documents, ie passport to be able to board an international flight. The people on boats throw away their ID so it becomes impossible to prove who they really are (especially when the system is overwhelmed) They just need a story of persecution and a birthplace with a proven track record of getting people asylum (ie lots of Pakistanis come claiming to be Afghans) and they get asylum in Australia (for life).

aussietobe

Reading between the lines you are suggesting that anyone who doesn't want never ending arrival of asylum seekers in leaky boats are the same people who stick 'f*** off we're full stickers' on cars (ie bigots).

Beoz

So if its that bad then why don't we see an endless stream of PNG locals vacating PNG?

spouse of scouse

Don't be picking on me, my black marker pen ran out last night and I'm quite distraught enough

The Bloke

I guess that they haven't had an extreme fundamentalist regime who sends extremely fanatical thugs out to shot, behead, disfigure etc, anyone who didn't agree and tow the fundamentalist religious line.
Fine, people might say that Afghanistan, Iraq etc have been cleared of these fanatics, but when the US, Australia and other coalition forces pull out, my money is on the Taliban etc retaking control. I think people are getting out while they can.
Prior to WW2, something similar happened to the Jews in Europe, many paid the Nazis to "emigrate", but the US, UK and others were reluctant to take in refugees, illegal or otherwise, (though if you could help the country, you were okay to get in).

Beoz

In that case, PNG is fine for asylum seekers.