An apology to asylum seekers
#31
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I think it's a bit easy for those of us lucky to be born into a first world country and live comfortably as well as having the ability to migrate without much hassle to another first world country, to dictate that those who are fleeing for asylum are doing it wrong or are chancing their arm and looking for too much of a good thing. They didn't choose their country of birth nor did they choose to live under the threat of abuse or witness abuse/murder of their family.
I think it's also too easy to say that it's saving lives by turning back these boats. They are coming, they are not stopping. Them getting on these boats puts their lives at risk. Sending them back on a better boat puts them at risk even more. They are heading back to living in fear.
On a side note, if I was a people smuggler, I'd send a piece of crap boat out every day if I was going to get a decent one for my efforts. That just seems like a silly idea. Also, what then happens to the piece of crap boat? Do the Australian Navy have to dispose of it?
I think it's also too easy to say that it's saving lives by turning back these boats. They are coming, they are not stopping. Them getting on these boats puts their lives at risk. Sending them back on a better boat puts them at risk even more. They are heading back to living in fear.
On a side note, if I was a people smuggler, I'd send a piece of crap boat out every day if I was going to get a decent one for my efforts. That just seems like a silly idea. Also, what then happens to the piece of crap boat? Do the Australian Navy have to dispose of it?
#32
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I think it's also too easy to say that it's saving lives by turning back these boats. They are coming, they are not stopping. Them getting on these boats puts their lives at risk. Sending them back on a better boat puts them at risk even more. They are heading back to living in fear.
Mind, if we just wanted to save lives, we could more reasonably do it by accepting asylum applications on Indonesia. The aim is, in part, to put up a "Sod off" sign for those without the money to get on a plane. Hell, with abbott that's the whole of it.
On a side note, if I was a people smuggler, I'd send a piece of crap boat out every day if I was going to get a decent one for my efforts. That just seems like a silly idea. Also, what then happens to the piece of crap boat? Do the Australian Navy have to dispose of it?
#33
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Dummy question here, but, surely it would be cheaper to buy a flight, rock up at one of the many International airports that exist in Australia and claim asylum, than it is to pay a person smuggler tens of thousands of dollars.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
#34
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Dummy question here, but, surely it would be cheaper to buy a flight, rock up at one of the many International airports that exist in Australia and claim asylum, than it is to pay a person smuggler tens of thousands of dollars.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
First, it's not cheap to get on a plane.
Mainly however, it's not easy to get on the plane - you need passports, etc. as well as other stuff (ETA etc.). If you don't have it/can't get it, then you're stuffed.
#35
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,814
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Dummy question here, but, surely it would be cheaper to buy a flight, rock up at one of the many International airports that exist in Australia and claim asylum, than it is to pay a person smuggler tens of thousands of dollars.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
I'm sure someone will tell me something like they won't get on a plane in the first place without a visa.
Common practice is to then shred the (usually tourist) visa and passport once on board, dispose of them down the toilet during the flight and claim asylum on arrival.
#36
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Socialist twaddle
If life in Afghanistan is so truly bad, you are being persecuted, starved, beaten, raped, tortured etc then PNG with safety, shelter, 3 square a day, medical care, religious freedom, education and leisure facilities should be tolerable - but apparently isn't
If life in Afghanistan is so truly bad, you are being persecuted, starved, beaten, raped, tortured etc then PNG with safety, shelter, 3 square a day, medical care, religious freedom, education and leisure facilities should be tolerable - but apparently isn't
I know people who have lived there. One bloke who lived in the country for several years, once ended up with 7 spears in the back (some in the back of the seat) of his Landrover as he drove through a village......
#37
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Its cheaper than paying a people smuggler, but I'll take your point on the passport.
#38
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Obviously never lived in PNG....."persecuted, starved, beaten, raped, tortured" that sounds like a normal day in some parts of the PNG.......
I know people who have lived there. One bloke who lived in the country for several years, once ended up with 7 spears in the back (some in the back of the seat) of his Landrover as he drove through a village......
I know people who have lived there. One bloke who lived in the country for several years, once ended up with 7 spears in the back (some in the back of the seat) of his Landrover as he drove through a village......
If it was for locals then they would be fleeing in droves.
#39
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
The guy I know accidently clipped a pig......he didn't stop, just planted the foot on the accelerator and.....
#40
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Its way cheaper to come on a plane than on a boat. But they need to use their travel documents, ie passport to be able to board an international flight. The people on boats throw away their ID so it becomes impossible to prove who they really are (especially when the system is overwhelmed) They just need a story of persecution and a birthplace with a proven track record of getting people asylum (ie lots of Pakistanis come claiming to be Afghans) and they get asylum in Australia (for life).
#41
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I hope you feel better after all that I'm not a leftie, I'm not a rightie, I didn't call anyone a selfish prick, I don't claim the high (or low) moral ground and I don't believe in open borders. Wrap your laughing gear around that.
Oh, and I'm a third generation Australian who's lived here for all my 55 years, and I'll damn well say whatever I like about the government who runs my country and the people who do or don't live in it.
Now where's my black marker pen and torch.....
Oh, and I'm a third generation Australian who's lived here for all my 55 years, and I'll damn well say whatever I like about the government who runs my country and the people who do or don't live in it.
Now where's my black marker pen and torch.....
#42
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
So if its that bad then why don't we see an endless stream of PNG locals vacating PNG?
#43
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Don't be picking on me, my black marker pen ran out last night and I'm quite distraught enough
#44
Re: An apology to asylum seekers
Fine, people might say that Afghanistan, Iraq etc have been cleared of these fanatics, but when the US, Australia and other coalition forces pull out, my money is on the Taliban etc retaking control. I think people are getting out while they can.
Prior to WW2, something similar happened to the Jews in Europe, many paid the Nazis to "emigrate", but the US, UK and others were reluctant to take in refugees, illegal or otherwise, (though if you could help the country, you were okay to get in).
#45
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Re: An apology to asylum seekers
I guess that they haven't had an extreme fundamentalist regime who sends extremely fanatical thugs out to shot, behead, disfigure etc, anyone who didn't agree and tow the fundamentalist religious line.
Fine, people might say that Afghanistan, Iraq etc have been cleared of these fanatics, but when the US, Australia and other coalition forces pull out, my money is on the Taliban etc retaking control. I think people are getting out while they can.
Prior to WW2, something similar happened to the Jews in Europe, many paid the Nazis to "emigrate", but the US, UK and others were reluctant to take in refugees, illegal or otherwise, (though if you could help the country, you were okay to get in).
Fine, people might say that Afghanistan, Iraq etc have been cleared of these fanatics, but when the US, Australia and other coalition forces pull out, my money is on the Taliban etc retaking control. I think people are getting out while they can.
Prior to WW2, something similar happened to the Jews in Europe, many paid the Nazis to "emigrate", but the US, UK and others were reluctant to take in refugees, illegal or otherwise, (though if you could help the country, you were okay to get in).