Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
Jul 24th 2015, 11:32 am
#31
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
First off, apologies if I get the quote markers wrong. It's been a long time since I used a forum like this. Hopefully context will make it clear.
This is a site for British expats. The culture in Britain is not to eat everything with as much noise as possible, nor is the culture to eat with your mouth open, often speaking whilst doing so for added spray effect. Masks would be a useful addition in this situation.
As I said it's not just noodles, it's everything everywhere they put in their mouths that has to be sucked in with the sound of a stomach pump.
You're lucky, personally I find slurping sushi unpleasenet and unnecessary, but I come from culture that has the concept of table manners.
Originally Posted by Athos
The laziness is nothing to do with work being dumped on them late in the day. It's to do with deliberately not doing the work during the normal working hours then putting on a pathetic pantomime for the boss to show how vital they are by staying behind. I've seen it again and again and again and it's so ubiquitous that I'm so nearly everyone who posts about Japan knows it.
Yes, there are certainly lazy people everywhere, this thread is not about other places.
If t is your contention that overtime is caused by ineffective bosses handing out work late than it is the bosses who are lazy.
Where is it that doesn't look like a 1970s industrial estate?
Where is the marvellous place?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
I have only seen one person in a wheelchair my entire time I've been here, but then pavements and roads are hardly access friendly. The disabled probably have to spend their lives shut away. Considering what's outside that might be for the best.
Again, where is this magical Bohemian part of Japan free of the ever present bigotry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Masks? WTF? There is no explanation for that other than hiding your face. The holes in material are quite large when compared to the size bacteria or viruses. Surgical masks are designed to stop surgical staff accidentally dropping body fluids into open wounds when leaning over them. Any other use is pointless.
This might be why they have been sold, but it's not how they work. Water molecules are what in scientific terms is called very, very small, smaller even than bacteria or viruses. Comparatively the holes in material are very, very large. The molecules are turned into an aerosol by the fabric. Surgical mask have one purpose, use in surgery. OK, two purposes, hiding your face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
You didn't mention, no rubbish bins anywhere, so rubbish is thrown on the ground. This is supposedly because of the sarin gas attacks. That was 20 years ago in one specific place, by one specific group, so the entire country has to have rubbish everywhere.
Rubbish bins in stations are banned by law as that is where the sarin bombs were placed. There are recycling bins for cans and bottles (because bombs can't be made to fit in cans?), as there are at convenience stores that sell the cans, but no bins for general rubbish, except at toll road service stations - areas of private proper.
Rubbish is very common, cigarette butts more so (as smoking is still fashionable and allowed inside!) I take some photos for you, make a nice change from rice fields and concrete.
"Just because the Japanese consider the slurping of noodles to be polite and you find it objectionable is no reason to complain, also quite a few of the slurped noodles are cold not hot. Just avoid noodle restaurants or eat at home it's easy to do!. "
As I said it's not just noodles, it's everything everywhere they put in their mouths that has to be sucked in with the sound of a stomach pump.
"Your experience not mine."
Originally Posted by Athos
The laziness is nothing to do with work being dumped on them late in the day. It's to do with deliberately not doing the work during the normal working hours then putting on a pathetic pantomime for the boss to show how vital they are by staying behind. I've seen it again and again and again and it's so ubiquitous that I'm so nearly everyone who posts about Japan knows it.
Some Japanese are that lazy as are some Brit's.
In the company's I worked the main reason for working late was, as I said, poor management not being lazy. Together with the need to stay until their direct boss left.
In the company's I worked the main reason for working late was, as I said, poor management not being lazy. Together with the need to stay until their direct boss left.
If t is your contention that overtime is caused by ineffective bosses handing out work late than it is the bosses who are lazy.
Where is it that doesn't look like a 1970s industrial estate?
None of the places I go, or where I live, are like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
I have only seen one person in a wheelchair my entire time I've been here, but then pavements and roads are hardly access friendly. The disabled probably have to spend their lives shut away. Considering what's outside that might be for the best.
I see them on average once a week, my wife almost every time she goes out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Masks? WTF? There is no explanation for that other than hiding your face. The holes in material are quite large when compared to the size bacteria or viruses. Surgical masks are designed to stop surgical staff accidentally dropping body fluids into open wounds when leaning over them. Any other use is pointless.
They are to provide you with protection from spray from coughing and sneezing far more than to protect the wearer. And in winter on the Pacific Ocean side to protect against the extremely low humidity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
You didn't mention, no rubbish bins anywhere, so rubbish is thrown on the ground. This is supposedly because of the sarin gas attacks. That was 20 years ago in one specific place, by one specific group, so the entire country has to have rubbish everywhere.
"rubbish bins" every station, every MiniStop, every Lawsons, every 7/11, every Family Mart, and every other convince store. Virtually every group of vending machines has a recycling rubbish bin or two.
Clean streets, no cigarette buts, no rubbish
Clean streets, no cigarette buts, no rubbish
Rubbish is very common, cigarette butts more so (as smoking is still fashionable and allowed inside!) I take some photos for you, make a nice change from rice fields and concrete.
Jul 25th 2015, 2:18 am
#32
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Joined: Mar 2015
Location: Issan Thailand, Tokyo
Posts: 13
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
My experience is clearly different from yours as, it seems, my attitude. Everyone is welcome to their points of view and I am not concerned with trying to change yours. The thing is that there are points that you have posted as fact which are not true and others where what you have seen I, and my wife have never in the time we have been living in japan.
Apart from noodles and hot tea my wife has never heard slurping when we go out to eat, I've been here a little longer than she has and neither have I.
lazy no, poorly trained yes
I live and work in the Kanto region. Though occasionally on the Japan sea side of the Japan Alps.
If you re-read I never said that there was no bigotry! Look to the left. As in my forum ID it's Tokyo.
No they are not. As I posted they are currently (and have been for years now) in every JR East station and almost all the private line stations I use. They are inside or outside every convince store. In all those places there are usually sets of 3 Newspapers, cans and bottles, and general.
There were a very few years after the attack where they were either sealed or removed, but they are back now.
And there are can and bottle, bins beside almost every group of veding machines.
Again there is almost no litter in the Kanto region areas I go to (the only exception to that is if the crows get to unprotected rubbish bags on collection days, but most collection areas now have anti-crow nets). FWIW we get burnable collections 3 times a week rather than the British cultural norm of once every 2 weeks or once a month 
And most offices and buildings now have smoking banns also some of the wards now ban smoking on the streets, so "fashionable" no so much.
Exaggerating for effect is one thing and personal experiences and opinions are just that. Others may agree or not but If you are going to rant please get your facts straight.
If you travel during rush hours you are unlikely to see people in wheelchairs in most countries, Japan in no different, I am lucky to travel to work in several different places and seldom need to travel during rush hours.
Apart from noodles and hot tea my wife has never heard slurping when we go out to eat, I've been here a little longer than she has and neither have I.
Originally Posted by Authors
If t is your contention that overtime is caused by ineffective bosses handing out work late than it is the bosses who are lazy.
Originally Posted by Authors
Where is it that doesn't look like a 1970s industrial estate?
Where is the marvellous place?
Where is the marvellous place?
Originally Posted by Authors
Again, where is this magical Bohemian part of Japan free of the ever present bigotry?
Originally Posted by Authors
Rubbish bins in stations are banned by law as that is where the sarin bombs were placed. There are recycling bins for cans and bottles (because bombs can't be made to fit in cans?), as there are at convenience stores that sell the cans, but no bins for general rubbish, except at toll road service stations - areas of private proper.
There were a very few years after the attack where they were either sealed or removed, but they are back now.
And there are can and bottle, bins beside almost every group of veding machines.
Originally Posted by Authors
Rubbish is very common, cigarette butts more so (as smoking is still fashionable and allowed inside!) I take some photos for you, make a nice change from rice fields and concrete.
And most offices and buildings now have smoking banns also some of the wards now ban smoking on the streets, so "fashionable" no so much.
Exaggerating for effect is one thing and personal experiences and opinions are just that. Others may agree or not but If you are going to rant please get your facts straight.
If you travel during rush hours you are unlikely to see people in wheelchairs in most countries, Japan in no different, I am lucky to travel to work in several different places and seldom need to travel during rush hours.
Last edited by Sometimewoodworker; Jul 25th 2015 at 4:02 am. Reason: Added information and clarity
Jul 25th 2015, 3:15 am
#33
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
there are points that you have posted as fact which are not true
There are no rubbish bins in public areas. The car parks of convenience stores are private, railways are private, toll road service stations are private. In private areas the laws relating to public spaces don't apply, just as the bins put out by private companies to recycle the waste from their customers aren't in public areas.
Go to a park and find a bin. Walk along a street and find a bin that isn't only cans and bottles next to a vending machine. They don't exist.
If someone can tell me which picture hosting site is best to post photos on here I'll provide evidence of the charming architecture, picturesque sea of overhead cables, photogenic cigarette butts and delightful grey concrete.
Jul 25th 2015, 3:20 am
#34
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
I notice you don't dispute the staring and shoving. Have you personally experienced these so they qualify as true?
Jul 25th 2015, 4:31 am
#35
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Joined: Mar 2015
Location: Issan Thailand, Tokyo
Posts: 13
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
I have no doubt about your honest opinions or observations. That you imply from those that it applies to all Japanese is where you are mistaken
As to fact
Q.E.D.
I did not comment, as they were your personal experiences in what seems to be a rural or non cosmopolitan area. However since you ask.
Staring, occasionally by a few adults when I was here first, now a few children. Shoving, no more than in other countries in similar crowded situations.
As to fact
Q.E.D.
Staring, occasionally by a few adults when I was here first, now a few children. Shoving, no more than in other countries in similar crowded situations.
Jul 25th 2015, 5:07 am
#36
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
So you write "there are points that you have posted as fact which are not true" and follow that up with "I have no doubt about your honest opinions or observation". What I am saying true or it isn't. I am far from the only one with these experiences, so the consensus view would seem to suggest your "facts" are mistaken.
Bins
You seem to find lots. Are you sure you are not mistaking recycling forcans and bottles for rubbish bins? Because no one else in japan finds rubbish bins (except I suspect your wife, but as second hand anecdotes are little evidential value let's not go there).
Talking trash ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion
Why are there so few benches and garbage bins in public places in Japanese cities? ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion
http://www.quora.com/Why-does-Tokyo-...lic-trash-cans
8 Surprising Things About Japan for First-time Visitors
Japan's final sarin gas trial unlikely to bring closure - Telegraph
It seems to you who mistaken.
Facemasks:
Preventing the airborne spread of Staphylococcus aureus by persons with the common cold: effect of surgical scrubs, gowns, and masks.
QED means quod erat demonstrandum, that which was to proved. Use of the term requires evidence. It is not interchangeable with exempli gratia (e.g) and even them your example is wrong.
I will no longer respond to your posts.
Bins
You seem to find lots. Are you sure you are not mistaking recycling forcans and bottles for rubbish bins? Because no one else in japan finds rubbish bins (except I suspect your wife, but as second hand anecdotes are little evidential value let's not go there).
Japan’s utterly frustrating lack of public trashcans.
the garbage bins were removed after the 1995 Aum gas attacks. Also, there may be a line of thought that people are supposed to dispose of their garbage at home.
Why does Tokyo have so few public trash cans?
Short answer: it started as an anti-terrorism measure, and has continued largely because it saves money.
Short answer: it started as an anti-terrorism measure, and has continued largely because it saves money.
8 Surprising Things About Japan for First-time Visitors
1. Lack of public rubbish bins/trash cans
1. Lack of public rubbish bins/trash cans
...rubbish bins are only now reappearing on train platforms and have been redesigned so that their contents are visible through transparent panels.
That you imply from those that it applies to all Japanese is where you are mistaken
Facemasks:
Preventing the airborne spread of Staphylococcus aureus by persons with the common cold: effect of surgical scrubs, gowns, and masks.
Results: All participants developed a common cold. Incidence rate ratios (IRRs) indicated that, compared with airborne levels of S. aureus during sessions in which street clothes were worn, airborne levels decreased by 75% when surgical scrubs were worn (P<.001), by 80% when scrubs and a surgical gown were worn (P<.001), and by 82% when scrubs, a gown, and a face mask were worn (P<.001). The addition of a mask to the surgical scrubs and gown did not reduce the airborne dispersal significantly (IRR, 0.92; P>.05). Male volunteers shed twice as much S. aureus as females (incidence rate ratio, 2.04; P=.013). The cold did not alter the efficacy of the barrier precautions.
QED means quod erat demonstrandum, that which was to proved. Use of the term requires evidence. It is not interchangeable with exempli gratia (e.g) and even them your example is wrong.
I will no longer respond to your posts.
Jul 25th 2015, 8:38 am
#37
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
My absolute final comment on unrealistic perception of Sometimewodworker.
It is not his perception that has changed and he has become habituated to being starred at, but that every Japanese person has become accustomed to him and no longer stares?
Staring, occasionally by a few adults when I was here first, now a few children.
Jul 25th 2015, 1:04 pm
#38
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Joined: Mar 2015
Location: Issan Thailand, Tokyo
Posts: 13
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
.
I am well aware of the meaning of Q.E.D. I did not bother to repeat my proof however I will now.
You said
I pointed out
Thus quod erat demonstrandum those "facts" are not facts a point which you proved yourself in your own link.
8 Surprising Things About Japan for First-time Visitors
and that link mentioned
a point you conveniently decided to omit as it didn't support your view. Also
My perceptions are as realistic as yours, different, sure, unrealistic, no and not influenced by hatred.
They have better things to do, about 60% are using iPhones 30% android phones or tablets and most of the others are sleeping, dozing or pretending to do so.
In a city with about 14,000,000 people traveling in and out each day? (40 million pass through ticket gates each day but that figure is higher than the number of people traveling as I, for one, go through 2 on most trips)
FWIW I have been here for a little bit longer longer than you but it has always been my choice to work here. If I had felt the kind of hatred you do I would not have stayed. My job is rewarding, not so much in money but in job satisfaction.
I leave Japan twice a year to spend time in rural Thailand where foreigners are really stared at and much more, so Japan is mild in comparison.
I am well aware of the meaning of Q.E.D. I did not bother to repeat my proof however I will now.
You said
Originally Posted by Athos
Rubbish bins in stations are banned by law
Originally Posted by Sometimewoodworker
No they are not. As I posted they are currently (and have been for years now) in every JR East station and almost all the private line stations I use. They are inside or outside every convince store. In thos places there are usually sets of 3 Newspapers, cans and bottles, and general. There were a very few years after the attack where they were either sealed or removed, but they are back now.
Originally Posted by Sometimewoodworker
"rubbish bins" every station, every MiniStop, every Lawsons, every 7/11, every Family Mart, and every other convince store. Virtually every group of vending machines has a recycling rubbish bin or two.
8 Surprising Things About Japan for First-time Visitors
and that link mentioned
Originally Posted by notesofnomads
Japan is quite astonishing for the fact that the streets are pristine
Originally Posted by notesofnomads
So what do the Japanese do? They take their trash home with them
Originally Posted by Athos
My absolute final comment on unrealistic perception of Sometimewodworker.
Originally Posted by Athos
It is not his perception that has changed and he has become habituated to being starred at, but that every Japanese person has become accustomed to him and no longer stares?
In a city with about 14,000,000 people traveling in and out each day? (40 million pass through ticket gates each day but that figure is higher than the number of people traveling as I, for one, go through 2 on most trips)
FWIW I have been here for a little bit longer longer than you but it has always been my choice to work here. If I had felt the kind of hatred you do I would not have stayed. My job is rewarding, not so much in money but in job satisfaction.
I leave Japan twice a year to spend time in rural Thailand where foreigners are really stared at and much more, so Japan is mild in comparison.
Jul 25th 2015, 2:47 pm
#39
Hostage Negotiator
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,173
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
OK guy'n'gals, I enjoy a good argument as much as anyone but keep the anger level down please otherwise it's end of thread.
Jul 25th 2015, 2:52 pm
#40
Hit 16's
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine
Posts: 13,112
Re: Japan - From a long term resident's perspective
