andmac

Hi I would not touch a PGCEi. I have been a trainer / teacher in the UK for a decade and am very highly qualified as a trainer and have done PTTLLS and CTTLLS. However, the PGCEi is apparently not compatible with the UK PGCE. I have done most of the work towards a PGCE but redundancy from the college prevented me from completing it! However, the work I have already done is not recognised by PGCE Spain. You have to start again and their qual does not provide Qualified Teacher Status - which a PGCE should. It seems to me to be a complete waste of money.

However, if anyone knows how to attain QTS here in Spain, please divulge....


Failing that, I am off to Valencia to the University to find out how to do it. I am fluent English and French and advanced Spanish so I want to teach and make this life here work!

laisaway

That's what I've been hearing too. The qualification counts for nothing concrete, neither here and definitely not in Britain. It may be enough to get your foot through the door of private schools here, but even private schools have to abide by certain certification requirements for their teachers. Previously, the powers that be cast a blind eye over these, but apparently they are getting stricter so I think less and less private schools will be willing to take on uncertified teachers.

Best thing is to arrive with your UK qualifications, which are easily convertible.

Good luck with making it work.

niccymay

I have also been following the PGCI Spain and am considering doing it. My problem is I don't know what the outcome is once you have the qualification. I would be interested to hear from those who have completed the course to see if they believe it was worth while. I have been in contact with the university for information and they have explained the basics. But what I would really like to know is how successful is the course? And if many private schools in Spain accept the qualification.

Bandyarker

hi all,
I am looking into taking the PGCEi with Nottingham uni via distance learning. I understand from this thread that some people on this will have finished the course by now.
How was it?
Has it helped your job applications? I am not interested in returning to the UK so am not worried about the QTS for there but will I need it for international schools abroad or is the pgcei enough? I already have a BA a CELTA and 2 years teaching experience.
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

meandmrsjones

Hello world. This is my first post.

I can answer most questions about the PGCEi. See below.

I'm so confused about the whole post graduate arena of study. Which one is best, most affordable and most useful? It really is a minefield! Just so know which angle i'm coming from, here's my backdrop.

I have...

(1) B.A Hons
(2) PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(3) CTLLS (Certificate to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector)
(4) TESOL Trinity College London
(5) 8 years teaching ESL in Thailand and 1 year teaching ESOL and As/A2 Law in England (College).

I want: To get a job overseas (preferably Middle East or Japan) in an international school. I've been told about a whole raft of qualifications that are out there, but it's all confusing me. I just don't know which one to do. Some are unaffordable, some are not practical, some are not recognized overseas, some don't confer QTS, some do confer QTS....urgghh...

Here are the options.

(a) PGCE
(b) PGCEi
(c) GTP (Graduate Teacher Programme)
(d) ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University
(e) PGCE for Lifelong Learning (Colleges)

PGCE
Ideally, i think we would all agree that the PGCE is the most widely accepted and it attracts QTS. But it costs GBP 9000....! That's a non-started.

PGCEi
Costs GBP 3500. No QTS with this course. However, 3 or 4 ex-colleagues in Thailand acquired this qualification and all of them now work in 2nd Tier International Schools. One works in Japan and is earning about GBP 40,000 as a maths teacher...! The PGCEi can be done via distance learning via Nottingham Uni. It can also be done with cohorts in Bangkok, Lagos, Valencia, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur and Dubai.

GTP
Attracts QTS, GBP 16000 salary while you train, funding to cover the course fees (courtesy of TDA). Very competitive and the subjects on offer are not attractive (Religious Education, Sciences, Modern Foreign Languages) or relevant to my degree (Law). I teach and want to continue teaching English/ESOL/ESL......what's the point changing direction? Is there a way around this? Does anyone know of a GTP course suitable for English/ESL/ESOL teachers? Another problem with this GTP.....you have to find your own school to train at. I imagine this will be very difficult. Can anyone comment?

ECIS International Teacher Certificate (ITC) via Cambridge University.
This is a new one, which i saw for the first time yesterday. Costs GBP 1900. One year study. I don't think it attracts QTS. A friend of mine who's a Headmaster at an international school said that this qualification would not be recognized by most International Schools. Worthless, in other words. Does anyone agree/disagree?

PGCE (Lifelong Learning)
This seems to be a PGCE for teachers wishing to teach in colleges in UK. It's a bit knew to me. Does it get you QTS? IS is recognized abroad? How much does it cost? Will International primary/secondary schools accept it?

Sorry for such a long post, but it really is a minefield!!

Please help.....my head is spinning!

MeAndMrsJones....
XX

mub2002

I am currently located in Hong Kong and am in a similar position to a lot of people here, so this thread makes for very interesting reading. I have recently applied for the HK university PGDE, but this is specific to the HK education system and so there are always questions over whether this can be used outside HK, and obviously it has not QTS with it. The only alternative seems to be the PGCEi, but like others here, they will not respond to questions over how useful it is. Someone I know currently studying it made the comment that the work for it all seems rather vague to.

So other than moving back to the UK for it (not an option for the time being), there really seems little choice when it comes to practical qualifications.

meandmrsjones

Seems like this whole forum is dead. Yours is the first reply i've had since i posted my original query at about 5 weeks ago.

Personally, if you are in HK it is kind of a blessing in disguise - there are less courses available to you to cloud the judgement. If i were you i would seriously look at the PGCEi. You can enroll in Shanghai. I think they have intakes in Jan and Sept each year. Get in touch with Nottingham University to find out more.

There is another option too. Check out the (Diploma to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector) DTLLS course. DTLLS can be done online via a UK firm called Bright Assessing (among others). I'm not sure what qualifications you have, but i think you need to have PTLLS(level 3) and CTLLS (level 4) but don't take my word for it. But even so, PTLLS and CTLLS can be done online too. But maybe other quals will suffice in order to get you enrolled on DTLLS.

DTLLS costs about GBP 1000 and can be done online and it also attracts QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learner Skills status) and this is just as good as PGCE and all the others because QTLS basically means that you are fully qualified. You will have to join the IfL (Institute for Learning) to get your QTLS conferred. People who have QTLS via the DTLLS route are able to teach in UK colleges. As from April this year, that will extend to being able to teach in schools too, thanks to some sweeping changes made recently. It will have parity with a traditional QTS, in other words.

Good luck....

If DTLLS is not possible for whatever, i would definitely go for the PGCEi. It's the next best thing and, as i wrote in my original post, friends of mine are being well received at International Schools and they are earning decent levels of pay. However, i feel that PGCEi will decrease in value/prestige in the next 5 years or so for the sole reason that it does not confer QTS or QTLS. Just my opinion..

Cheers

Me&MrsJones

blueeyes

Dear Me&MrsJones,
Just a quick reply to your first post. I have the PGCE in Post-Compulsory Sector, which I think is what you referred to at the end of your mail, i.e. for teaching in further education. Unfortunately this does not grant QTS, however there are ways of gaining this but it usually means working in a primary or secondary school, and I'm not sure that is your area of interest.
A friend of mine did her PGCE in the UK secondary school years ago, didn't get around to gaining QTS. She was lucky enough though to get a job in an International School in Thailand, just on the basis that she had trained in the UK, and they didn't require her to have QTS. She's still there several years down the line. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the situation is in the ME or in Japan.

This is just a general answer to the initial query, but it seems that getting QTS or work in International schools in Europe, is much, much more difficult.

meandmrsjones

Hi.

Yes, PGCE in Post-Compulsory is what i was referring to. I am open to working in primary and secondary. If i took the PGCE Post-Compulsory is it possible to attain the qualification and then go on to get QTS by working oversaes....or is QTS only awarded if you are working in the UK?

There are certainly more jobs in Primary/Secondary than in further or higher education - especially in the UK. I have no interest in staying in the UK long term though, so ME or Japan appear to be my preferred destinations at this moment in time. A return to Thailand is not beyond consideration either - especially if i could get in to an International School.

What kind of salary is your friend earning in Thailand? If it is 80,000 Thai 'baht' per month or more it is enough to provide a very comfortable standard of living.

Thanks...

blueeyes

If you want to work in either primary or secondary, and you can stick out the UK for a year, I would do your PGCE in either of those sectors as you will also gain your experience in whichever sector whilst doing the training. (sorry, haven't had a chance to look at your original post again so I may be confused) I wish I had done this rather than the post-compulsory PGCE because while you can get QTS with the primary or secondary PGCE very easily, it is much more difficult when your training and experience is in further education colleges. Also, as a supply Teacher without QTS, you are more likely to be employed as an Instructor, which pays much less. These latter points are not the issue for you, but I would urge you not to bother with post-compulsory PGCE if you want to work in an International or British school overseas.
I will try and find out how much my friend is earning, bear in mind that her PGCE was in the secondary sector but she still managed to get a job in a primary school in Thailand, so there are options.

blueeyes

Sorry me&mrs just a bit of extra info I remembered. I have been trying to get my QTS here in the UK. Because I have my PGCE, it is possible to gain QTS 'by assessment only' University of Gloucester run this, and all you are required to do is work at a school for up to a year, do a portfolio with the support of a mentor, and then have 2 assessment visits by the Uni. Unfortunately this is a somewhat long-winded route, but it is worth you being aware of the problems of getting QTS with the P.C. PGCE.

lheffer

Hi, I have been looking into the pgcei too, did either of you take the course in the end? What was it like and does it hold any credit with the schools in Spain? I am living in Barcelona and want to start teaching in the British Curriculum primary schools here. Thanks!

meandmrsjones

Hi...

Sorry, i have no info for you. I did not take the course in the end. I will take it in about one more year i think. I don't know about Spain but, generally speaking, the PGCE is recognized the world over. You would certainly open many doors if you had it. If i were you, to get an accurate assessment, i would look on TEFL.com and and other teaching websites - have a look at the job jobs section and see the requirements that employers in Spain are insisting on. This is the only real way, as far as i know, to gauge the market. Good luck...and please let me know if you do take the course. I would like to know what you think of it....

blueeyes

Just a quick response. I moved to Spain a couple of weeks ago. As I mentioned before, I have a PGCE for the Post-Compulsory Sector, and as such I do not have Qualified Teacher Status. I would love to work in either an International or British school here in Spain, however without QTS it is almost impossible. Because I did the CELTA (Certificate in Teaching English to other languages), plus my UK secondary teaching experience, I have been able to get TEFL work in a private academy, and if you are looking at TEFL.COM you will find that the jobs are for TEFL rather than International or British schools in Spain, and other countries in Europe. Although TEFL is very easy to find here, be aware that you have less holidays, and less security than if you had a PGCE + QTS. If you want to get an idea about jobs in British and International schools and the qualifications required, I suggest you have a look at the TES website. Alternatively, if you have good Spanish, and you get the CELTA/TEFL certificate, you might be able to build up some classes in the Spanish state sector, but in the current climate I wouldn't depend on this.

Blueeyes.

sijob72

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I am just about to register for the PGCEi with Nottingham, and quite frankly want to know if it's worth doing it, if you've gained a job and if so, where. Please advise as Ia m worried about wasting my time on this. Thanks