Why the US?

Old Apr 19th 2014, 8:23 pm
  #166  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,397
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why the US?

Originally Posted by lansbury
No it was a store cheesecake cover in thick chocolate.
Is a "cheesecake cover" like a bread bin, or is it more like a cheese cloche?
Pulaski is offline  
Old Apr 19th 2014, 8:39 pm
  #167  
In the pink
 
Mallory's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,324
Mallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond reputeMallory has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why the US?

Originally Posted by lansbury
No it was a store cheesecake cover in thick chocolate.
Hope the chocolate didn't melt under the weight of all those candles!

Hope you had a happy birthday!
Mallory is offline  
Old Apr 19th 2014, 10:54 pm
  #168  
 
lansbury's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,962
lansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond reputelansbury has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why the US?

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Is a "cheesecake cover" like a bread bin, or is it more like a cheese cloche?
What was under the chocolate I don't know I was too busy licking it off.

Originally Posted by Mallory
Hope the chocolate didn't melt under the weight of all those candles!

Hope you had a happy birthday!
Thank you yes. Mind you on the day I qualified for FULL social security I wasn't to sure about the email I got from the fire department emergency manager with a subject "What are you going to do when the lights go out"
lansbury is offline  
Old Apr 19th 2014, 11:01 pm
  #169  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Hotscot's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,159
Hotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond reputeHotscot has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why the US?

Originally Posted by lansbury
I wasn't to sure about the email I got from the fire department emergency manager with a subject "What are you going to do when the lights go out"
Are they threatening you? Some sort of protection racket?
Hotscot is offline  
Old Apr 21st 2014, 1:09 am
  #170  
BE Forum Addict
 
MMcD's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: "LA LA Land"
Posts: 2,447
MMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond reputeMMcD has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why the US?

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Freedom of speech is not greater here - there is plenty of self censorship and manipulation of the media by controlling boards representing their vested interests, and it would be naive to think otherwise. Not only that, in my opinion there is far more freedom of thought in the UK.
Originally Posted by MMcD
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I did say freedom of thought, rather than of speech. I find the general UK populace far better informed and critical of their government than here in the US.
Originally Posted by MMcD
1)Can you help me to understand how, within the context of your statement (copied above - quote#1), you were not using the 2 synonymously?
2)Furthermore - pragmatically, to have any real meaning mustn't freedom of thought include freedom of speech?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I am taking freedom of thought to mean what people conduct inside their heads, not anything that is "granted" by their governments. The ability to see for oneself, to analyze, to imagine something else, to not simply accept unthinking the line that is handed out by the government, by media reflecting vested or party line interests, or by the dominant culture.

To your second point, no, I disagree. Every people or group or individual that has acted or risen up to change their personal circumstances or the circumstances of their country, or even simply refused to give in while imprisoned, has demonstrated freedom of thought in the fact of either physical, political, or psychological oppression or sometimes all three.

Freedom of speech may be won by people setting up a certain kind of government. Freedom of thought you retain on a personal level - unless, of course, you are too busy shopping and eating giant cheeseburgers to even care.

This phrase is attributed to more than one person in more than one language so I don't know who to credit.

"Liberty is not given, it is taken." It will be taken, ultimately, by those who retain freedom of thought even if they do not have freedom of speech or even freedom of their persons.
Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately - to my mind - it dodges what I raised; the answer artfully skirts it by segueing into a specious non-sequitur - a dissertation which is entirely beside the point about which I inquired (as did the response to my 1st post - #124 )

But….
1) you’ll reply as you see fit - and you did. Which means either…
2) you reject, out of hand, the points my questions raise or
3) you know very well - (but will never admit) you did, indeed, use the terms “freedom of speech” and “freedom of thought” synonymously, when derisively comparing the US to the UK. You had to do that as you’re aware that Freedom of Speech doesn’t exist as a “Guaranteed Right” in the UK; to make the comparison, slight of hand (typing finger) was unavoidable (and again, I reiterate - IMO, that is what you did, and furthermore, that was the only thing you said to prompt both my initial post - as well as my 2nd.

As an aside, I’d ask rhetorically:

Can there be “Freedom of Speech” when “Freedom of Thought“ is curtailed?

And if “Freedom of Thought” does not include a guarantee of “Freedom of Speech “ (as is the case in the UK) - then pragmatically, how “free”, how unassailable is it?

The video link included in and essentially comprising the sum total of my 1st post, offers a stark reminder of the inherent danger - not just to a newspaper - but to a nation - when that right isn’t guaranteed.

I’ll bet Alan Russberger and his Guardian colleagues, both in the UK and the US - or what you label the “limited free-speech country” when you compare it to the UK, would concur.

In any case, as I don’t want to thrust and parry or engage in a puerile, nit-picking diversion, and since I do believe you’re splitting hairs, pointing to a distinction without a difference - I, for one, will let the matter rest.

BTW: given your contemptuous disdain for Americans - the choice of avatar, “Lion in Winter”, is ironic.***


Finally, for anyone interested in pondering this further - there’s a wonderful scholarly essay, penned early in the 20th century, which examines the concept of Freedom of Thought and provides historical context for it’s evolution through the ages.

Read what a scholar who devoted his life to examination of, and critical thinking about these concepts eventually published ……. rather than puerile, specious assertions - banalities hurled through the ether in an online forum:

http://www.criticalthinking.org/page...of-thought/649

It begins like this:

“It is a common saying that thought is free. A man can never be hindered from thinking whatever he chooses so long as he conceals what he thinks. The working of his mind is limited only by the bounds of his experience and the power of his imagination. But this natural liberty of private thinking is of little value. It is unsatisfactory and even painful to the thinker himself, if he is not permitted to communicate his thoughts to others, and it is obviously of no value to his neighbours. Moreover it is extremely difficult to hide thoughts that have any power over the mind. If a man’s thinking leads him to call in question ideas and customs which regulate the behaviour of those about him, to reject beliefs which they hold, to see better ways of life than those they follow, it is almost impossible for him, if he is convinced of the truth of his own reasoning, not to betray by silence, chance words, or general attitude that he is different from them and does not share their opinions. Some have preferred, like Socrates, some would prefer to-day, to face death rather than conceal their thoughts. Thus freedom of thought, in any valuable sense, includes freedom of speech.”

…….. A History Of Freedom Of Thought, John Bagnell Bury; pub. 1914

J. B. BURY, M.A., F.B.A. HON. D.LITT. OF OXFORD, DURHAM, AND DUBLIN, AND HON. LL.D. OF EDINBURGH, GLASGOW, AND ABERDEEN UNIVERSITIES;
REGIUS PROFESSOR OF MODERN HISTORY, CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY
http://www.criticalthinking.org/page...of-thought/649

NOTE - BE Moderators: Above lengthy, cited quotation is annotated with the following permissions:
“This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.net”
That link states: “All items are free to download and share”

*** “The Leopard in Autumn”, at least penned by a Brit, seems more appropriate.

Now - back to my flock of “sheep, stay(ing)” ignorant, shopping, keep(ing) the brains quiet eating popcorn at the mall, followed by couch potato-ing outrage with Fox TV”.

Whew! - Busy times ahead as long as I can avoid :
“get(ing) rendered, waterboarded, imprisoned without trial indefinitely. Oh and shot by the coppers. With impunity. To them”
MMcD is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.