Originally Posted by Thydney

Slight problem here, is there a muslim country that could actually beat another country?

Originally Posted by Norm_uk

If you believe in a religion that becomes your basis of morality - so your religion is your justification.

Originally Posted by sherri

Dummies guide for shagging your slaves:
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...lavery_1.shtml

Who can be enslaved

Under Islamic law people can only be legally enslaved in two circumstances:
• as the result of being defeated in a war that was legal according to sharia
• if they are born as the child of two slave parents

Other legal systems of the time allowed people to be enslaved in a far wider range of circumstances.

The sharia limits were often either ignored or evaded, and many instances of slave trading by Muslims were in fact illegal, but tolerated.

The following groups of people cannot be made slaves:
• Free Muslims, but note that:
• Slaves who convert to Islam are not automatically freed
• Children born to legally enslaved Muslims are also slaves
• Dhimmis

Slave rights
Islamic law gives slaves certain rights:
• Slaves must not be mistreated or overworked, but should be treated well
• Slaves must be properly maintained
• Slaves may take legal action for a breach of these rules, and may be freed as a result
• Slaves may own property
• Slaves may own slaves
• Slaves can get married if their owner consents
• Slaves may undertake business on the owner's behalf
• Slaves guilty of crimes can only be given half the punishment that would be given to a non-slave (although some schools of Islamic law do allow the execution of a slave who commits murder)
• A female slave cannot be separated from her child while it is under 7 years old
• Female slaves cannot be forced into prostitution

Slaves must accept
• Owners are allowed to have sex with their female slaves

Slave rights to freedom
Islamic law allows slaves to get their freedom under certain circumstances. It divides slaves with the right to freedom into various classes:
• The mukatab: a slave who has the contractual right to buy their freedom over time
• The mudabbar: a slave who will be freed when their owner dies (this might not happen if the owner's estate was too small)
• The umm walid, a female slave who had borne her owner a child Slaves must accept
• Owners are allowed to have sex with their female slaves

Restrictions on slaves
Islamic law imposes many restrictions on slaves:
• Slaves cannot carry out some religious roles
• Slaves can have only limited authority
• Slaves cannot be witnesses in court
• Killing a slave does not carry the death penalty in most schools of Islamic law
• Slaves are punishable under Islamic law if they commit a crime - although for some major crimes they only receive half the punishment of free people

Originally Posted by Norm_uk

Am surprised to see that on the BBC...they are usually one of the worst Dhimmi organisations going.

A casual glance at history shows the last bastions of slavery in the last 100 years have been almost exclusively Islamic countries. For example, the Saudis, bowing to international pressure outlawed slavery in the 1960s...which was about the same time us evil infidel westerners were drafting up laws for racial and sexual equality and putting men in space...

Still think all cultures are equal

N.

Originally Posted by Charismatic

Great! Having silver shekels made, will coming for your virgin daughters soon.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 .

Originally Posted by WakeUp

Norm I have read some of your posts and you are obviously a very knowledgeable and and intelligent poster. There seems to be a theme though regarding Islam and a distrust / dislike for followers of this religion. Do you extend this belief to all organised religions?

Originally Posted by Norm_uk

It's not a belief, it's judgement based on study over a long time and first hand knowledge of being involved in a strict belief system myself.

To answer your question I find all organised religion ridiculous at best, and dangerous at worst. Why do you ask?

N.

Originally Posted by sherri

Dummies guide for shagging your slaves:
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...lavery_1.shtml


Slave rights
Islamic law gives slaves certain rights:

• Slaves may own slaves

Originally Posted by WakeUp

Sorry I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. No particular reason, you aren't afraid to give your opinion on this subject and I wondered whether you were an Islamaphobe, an Atheist or just against organised religion. I figured you wouldn't be offended by my question and it appears you weren't.

Originally Posted by shiva

The last slave Market in the UAE closed in al ain in the mid sixties.
Yemen still has officially sanctioned slaves in the hadramat although I believe the current generation are supposed to be the last.

As for the original post.

The more time goes on the more I think western empires were on balance actually a huge force for good and it may be time to re colonise and civilise certain places

Originally Posted by sherri

The ruling was confirmed by "specialised people of the faith" in Kuwait,

Un-fkn-believable. I am livid, I wonder what ‘Sharia-Law/Islam for UK’ would say about this?, fkn morons. I am in favour of a total ban on Abrahamic faith groups, they have bastardise the otherwise rational and moral religions.

Although Islam is much credited for moderating the age-old institution of slavery, which was also accepted and endorsed by the other monotheistic religions, Christianity and Judaism, and was a well-established custom of the pre-Islamic world, it has never preached the abolition of slavery as a doctrine.
Forough Jahanbaksh, Islam, Democracy and Religious Modernism in Iran, 1953-2000, 2001

Prohibiting slavery in the context of seventh-century Arabia apparently would have been as useful as prohibiting poverty; it would have reflected a noble ideal but would have been unworkable on an immediate basis without establishing an entirely new socioeconomic system.
Jacob Neusner, Tamara Sonn, Comparing Religions through Law: Judaism and Islam, 1999

Originally Posted by Norm_uk

I'm not offended but I am usually quite direct and blunt so some people think I take everything personally because of that.

The word "Islamaphobe" is used as a kind of argument finisher against criticism of Islam...as if Islam were a race or something else people can't change. We have some terrible critics of Christianity but I've yet to hear them get called a "Biblephobe". I always wonder why Islam seems to demand a special status free from being offended over anything from common criticism to academic polemics.

N.