Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Mar 11th 2009, 11:31 pm
#16
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
It's all stereotyping. I work with English clients and the conversations I have had with some English people have been so amusing, one sentence they are complaining about how terrible it is in the UK with all the immigrants taking their jobs, benefits, council housing and refusing to speak English and in the next saying how terrible Spaniards are and how they don't speak English and how they are prejudiced towards the English. 
And no doubt the Spanish do exactly the same.
To stereotype my own kind: there is one thing us English do best and that is complain
I haven't met a single Spaniard (Yet )that has hated someone who has gone out of their way to fit in. My kids go to Spanish school, I work and pay taxes, I learnt Spanish and speak it fluently, I don't watch English TV, very rarely frequent English bars etc. and have basically integrated with the community around me. I will even be changing my nationality in the next 3 years to Spanish.
The only thing I have noticed is that the Spaniards will investigate foreigners a lot more than Spaniards (especially with regards to Taxes) but if you have all the papers in order, they can do very little about it. There is a lot of bar stool solicitors going around, and many people claim ignorance with regards to legal matters, but that is no excuse to be honest. If you are going to live and work in a country you need to abide by their rules and investigate any changes. Sadly as all governments are desperate for cash atm, they will go after the easy targets
And no doubt the Spanish do exactly the same.To stereotype my own kind: there is one thing us English do best and that is complain
I haven't met a single Spaniard (Yet
)that has hated someone who has gone out of their way to fit in. My kids go to Spanish school, I work and pay taxes, I learnt Spanish and speak it fluently, I don't watch English TV, very rarely frequent English bars etc. and have basically integrated with the community around me. I will even be changing my nationality in the next 3 years to Spanish. The only thing I have noticed is that the Spaniards will investigate foreigners a lot more than Spaniards (especially with regards to Taxes) but if you have all the papers in order, they can do very little about it. There is a lot of bar stool solicitors going around, and many people claim ignorance with regards to legal matters, but that is no excuse to be honest. If you are going to live and work in a country you need to abide by their rules and investigate any changes. Sadly as all governments are desperate for cash atm, they will go after the easy targets
Just curious....why would you want to take Spanish nationality? I've been here 12 years, have no intention of moving, but I would not renounce British citizenship to take on Spanish. Doesn't make sense. The only benefit being you can vote in the General Election - a good thing, but not worth the cost of renouncing your Britishness surely???
Mar 12th 2009, 12:35 am
#17
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Posts: 1,101
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Just curious....why would you want to take Spanish nationality? I've been here 12 years, have no intention of moving, but I would not renounce British citizenship to take on Spanish. Doesn't make sense. The only benefit being you can vote in the General Election - a good thing, but not worth the cost of renouncing your Britishness surely???
Not having to go through Madrid and take out a mortgage to renew my passport every 10 years is another benefit.
Being able to enter competitions reserved for Spanish nationals is another (ok, not an every day requirement for most people, but I have been excluded on these grounds previously).
But perhaps the biggest benefit in my opinion at the moment......I get another handy wallet sized ID card!!! God I miss my tarjeta de residencia!!
Mar 12th 2009, 8:15 am
#18
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
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Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Its all a personal thing I guess, but being British has its advantages.
You just dont know whats around the corner, and if I did have to go back to the UK then I have a parachute landing. If I renounce my nationality I have nothing.
Personally for me ..... it will never happen (change of nationality)
You just dont know whats around the corner, and if I did have to go back to the UK then I have a parachute landing. If I renounce my nationality I have nothing.
Personally for me ..... it will never happen (change of nationality)
Mar 12th 2009, 8:22 am
#19
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Torrevieja
Posts: 7
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
I am also going to change my nationality soon. The benefits are admittedly small, but nonetheless I think it is worth it.
Not having to go through Madrid and take out a mortgage to renew my passport every 10 years is another benefit.
Being able to enter competitions reserved for Spanish nationals is another (ok, not an every day requirement for most people, but I have been excluded on these grounds previously).
But perhaps the biggest benefit in my opinion at the moment......I get another handy wallet sized ID card!!! God I miss my tarjeta de residencia!!
Not having to go through Madrid and take out a mortgage to renew my passport every 10 years is another benefit.
Being able to enter competitions reserved for Spanish nationals is another (ok, not an every day requirement for most people, but I have been excluded on these grounds previously).
But perhaps the biggest benefit in my opinion at the moment......I get another handy wallet sized ID card!!! God I miss my tarjeta de residencia!!
Plus my husband's a Spanish national, all my family live here so England is more a foreign country to me than Spain is. There is nothing for me in the UK, no home, no life, no family. If something did happen, I wouldn't be able to go back.
Mar 12th 2009, 8:29 am
#20
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
I am also going to change my nationality soon. The benefits are admittedly small, but nonetheless I think it is worth it.
Not having to go through Madrid and take out a mortgage to renew my passport every 10 years is another benefit.
Being able to enter competitions reserved for Spanish nationals is another (ok, not an every day requirement for most people, but I have been excluded on these grounds previously).
But perhaps the biggest benefit in my opinion at the moment......I get another handy wallet sized ID card!!! God I miss my tarjeta de residencia!!
Not having to go through Madrid and take out a mortgage to renew my passport every 10 years is another benefit.
Being able to enter competitions reserved for Spanish nationals is another (ok, not an every day requirement for most people, but I have been excluded on these grounds previously).
But perhaps the biggest benefit in my opinion at the moment......I get another handy wallet sized ID card!!! God I miss my tarjeta de residencia!!
Yup those would be my reasons too. Plus I don't actually seem to have any benefits from being a British National at all so it only seems to hinder my life here in terms of easiness. i.e lugging around my hideously expensive and difficult to replace passport and original large A4 size tatty piece of paper encase I get stopped by the Guardia.
Plus my husband's a Spanish national, all my family live here so England is more a foreign country to me than Spain is. There is nothing for me in the UK, no home, no life, no family. If something did happen, I wouldn't be able to go back.
Plus my husband's a Spanish national, all my family live here so England is more a foreign country to me than Spain is. There is nothing for me in the UK, no home, no life, no family. If something did happen, I wouldn't be able to go back.
Why don't you just use your Spanish driving licence (which you should now have) as ID, which is what a lot of people I know do. Mrs F, a Spaniard, often just uses her driving licence as ID. It is photo ID, it has your DNI/NIE number on it. Enough for the authorities.
Mar 12th 2009, 9:22 am
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Javea, Costa Blanca.
Posts: 225
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
I worried a lot about the way the Spanish would deal with us when I first moved to Spain.
Looking back I don't think the Spanish are any different to anyone else and so it comes down to common sense - if you live your life properly and respectfully you will be treated well - the Spanish are very friendly and helpful people but of course if they come across the typical Brit who gives us a bad name then they will react accordingly.
I think a lot of the people who do give the Brits a bad name are moving back anyway, so that will help!
Mark
Looking back I don't think the Spanish are any different to anyone else and so it comes down to common sense - if you live your life properly and respectfully you will be treated well - the Spanish are very friendly and helpful people but of course if they come across the typical Brit who gives us a bad name then they will react accordingly.
I think a lot of the people who do give the Brits a bad name are moving back anyway, so that will help!
Mark
Mar 12th 2009, 9:51 am
#22
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 569
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Becoming a Spanish National doesn`t mean leaving your British nationality, as the UK recognizes dual Nationality.
You`ll always be British National, but some entitlements are different.
The Spanish I`m afraid don`t accept dual nationality.
When you do your oath bit, you have to accept your no longer a Brit, but UK govt still loves you.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/bri...alnationality/
For a Brit with Spanish Nationality, Spain see`s you as Spanish, Britain see`s you as a Brit, with Spanish Nationality.
It does make it interesting in the airports though.
You`ll always be British National, but some entitlements are different.
The Spanish I`m afraid don`t accept dual nationality.
When you do your oath bit, you have to accept your no longer a Brit, but UK govt still loves you.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/bri...alnationality/
For a Brit with Spanish Nationality, Spain see`s you as Spanish, Britain see`s you as a Brit, with Spanish Nationality.
It does make it interesting in the airports though.
Mar 12th 2009, 11:09 am
#23
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
I imagined that might be the case, Liviit. As a native born Brit, even if you ever did take another nationality, you would always be welcomed back.
Mine is a prinicpal thing, though. I don't understand that in this day and age, given that we are all in the EU, one has to renounce ones own nationality to get 100% equal treatment in a country where one lives, contributes, pays taxes etc....
It only bothers me at election time - I have lived more Spanish General elections than I have British ones. Most of my adult working life has been in Spain. My property & business is here. It is preposterous that I am eligible to vote in UK election - where I have nothing - and I can't here, where I have everything. What happens in Madrid directly affects my life - what happens in London does not.
I would prefer to see a system adopted that instead of renouncing nationality, one could relinquish UK voting rigts to be able to vote here. If ever I returned (doubtful), I would relinquish Spanish voting rights to recover my UK ones - probably would need to have some sort of qualifying period to get the vote again so the system doesn't get abused.
I live in hope. But I downright refuse to renounce my British nationality, even if it only for bureaucratic purposes.
Mine is a prinicpal thing, though. I don't understand that in this day and age, given that we are all in the EU, one has to renounce ones own nationality to get 100% equal treatment in a country where one lives, contributes, pays taxes etc....
It only bothers me at election time - I have lived more Spanish General elections than I have British ones. Most of my adult working life has been in Spain. My property & business is here. It is preposterous that I am eligible to vote in UK election - where I have nothing - and I can't here, where I have everything. What happens in Madrid directly affects my life - what happens in London does not.
I would prefer to see a system adopted that instead of renouncing nationality, one could relinquish UK voting rigts to be able to vote here. If ever I returned (doubtful), I would relinquish Spanish voting rights to recover my UK ones - probably would need to have some sort of qualifying period to get the vote again so the system doesn't get abused.
I live in hope. But I downright refuse to renounce my British nationality, even if it only for bureaucratic purposes.
Mar 12th 2009, 11:16 am
#24
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
It's all stereotyping. I work with English clients and the conversations I have had with some English people have been so amusing, one sentence they are complaining about how terrible it is in the UK with all the immigrants taking their jobs, benefits, council housing and refusing to speak English and in the next saying how terrible Spaniards are and how they don't speak English and how they are prejudiced towards the English. And no doubt the Spanish do exactly the same.
To stereotype my own kind: there is one thing us English do best and that is complain
I haven't met a single Spaniard (Yet )that has hated someone who has gone out of their way to fit in. My kids go to Spanish school, I work and pay taxes, I learnt Spanish and speak it fluently, I don't watch English TV, very rarely frequent English bars etc. and have basically integrated with the community around me. I will even be changing my nationality in the next 3 years to Spanish.
The only thing I have noticed is that the Spaniards will investigate foreigners a lot more than Spaniards (especially with regards to Taxes) but if you have all the papers in order, they can do very little about it. There is a lot of bar stool solicitors going around, and many people claim ignorance with regards to legal matters, but that is no excuse to be honest. If you are going to live and work in a country you need to abide by their rules and investigate any changes. Sadly as all governments are desperate for cash atm, they will go after the easy targets
And no doubt the Spanish do exactly the same.To stereotype my own kind: there is one thing us English do best and that is complain
I haven't met a single Spaniard (Yet
)that has hated someone who has gone out of their way to fit in. My kids go to Spanish school, I work and pay taxes, I learnt Spanish and speak it fluently, I don't watch English TV, very rarely frequent English bars etc. and have basically integrated with the community around me. I will even be changing my nationality in the next 3 years to Spanish. The only thing I have noticed is that the Spaniards will investigate foreigners a lot more than Spaniards (especially with regards to Taxes) but if you have all the papers in order, they can do very little about it. There is a lot of bar stool solicitors going around, and many people claim ignorance with regards to legal matters, but that is no excuse to be honest. If you are going to live and work in a country you need to abide by their rules and investigate any changes. Sadly as all governments are desperate for cash atm, they will go after the easy targets
Mar 12th 2009, 1:40 pm
#25
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,101
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Yup those would be my reasons too. Plus I don't actually seem to have any benefits from being a British National at all so it only seems to hinder my life here in terms of easiness. i.e lugging around my hideously expensive and difficult to replace passport and original large A4 size tatty piece of paper encase I get stopped by the Guardia.
Plus my husband's a Spanish national, all my family live here so England is more a foreign country to me than Spain is. There is nothing for me in the UK, no home, no life, no family. If something did happen, I wouldn't be able to go back.
Plus my husband's a Spanish national, all my family live here so England is more a foreign country to me than Spain is. There is nothing for me in the UK, no home, no life, no family. If something did happen, I wouldn't be able to go back.
Changing to Spanish nationality just seems like common sense to me, and like you my British nationality just seems to get in the way and be an inconvenience at times.
Mar 12th 2009, 1:50 pm
#26
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,101
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
In 12 years I have NEVER had to lug my passport around. Admittedly I did have a tarjeta but lost that about a year after I got it and never replaced it.
Why don't you just use your Spanish driving licence (which you should now have) as ID, which is what a lot of people I know do. Mrs F, a Spaniard, often just uses her driving licence as ID. It is photo ID, it has your DNI/NIE number on it. Enough for the authorities.
Why don't you just use your Spanish driving licence (which you should now have) as ID, which is what a lot of people I know do. Mrs F, a Spaniard, often just uses her driving licence as ID. It is photo ID, it has your DNI/NIE number on it. Enough for the authorities.
Anyway, driving licences are only valid forms of ID in slightly less official circumstances, eg shops. I am constantly in and out of the Hacienda where they won't even accept the compulsado version of my certificado de residencia let alone a Driving Licence!. I was once refused access to a hotel in Madrid because I only had my driving licence with me and had left the passport at home (!). Seguridad Social don't like the DLs either.
I want one, handy wallet sized, serves all purposes, ID card. And I will have one again soon when I change nationality.
Mar 12th 2009, 6:42 pm
#27
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Sorry I've just skimmed.. I'm always interested in the dual citizenship rules of various countries.
I know that the UK does not mind; what exactly is Spain's stance?
In the US, for example, most people think we can not hold dual/multiple citizenships. Actually, the US' posture is: (if) You are a US citizen, that is the only way we 'see' you; the US gov't will only recognize you as a US citizen. What you do with your UK/Can/other passport is up to you.
There is a renunciation of alligience in the Citizenship Oath, but they can not force you to give back your UK/non-US passport.
One thing I know about Spain is that it shares the US' insistance on reporting/taxing your worldwide income instead of only income earned in Spain.
I know that the UK does not mind; what exactly is Spain's stance?
In the US, for example, most people think we can not hold dual/multiple citizenships. Actually, the US' posture is: (if) You are a US citizen, that is the only way we 'see' you; the US gov't will only recognize you as a US citizen. What you do with your UK/Can/other passport is up to you.
There is a renunciation of alligience in the Citizenship Oath, but they can not force you to give back your UK/non-US passport.
One thing I know about Spain is that it shares the US' insistance on reporting/taxing your worldwide income instead of only income earned in Spain.
Mar 12th 2009, 6:47 pm
#28
Welsh Ambassador to Spain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,741
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Because that, like my residencia, is another crappy piece of dog eared paper. Ok, I know they do the cards now, but mine isn't up for renewal yet.
Anyway, driving licences are only valid forms of ID in slightly less official circumstances, eg shops. I am constantly in and out of the Hacienda where they won't even accept the compulsado version of my certificado de residencia let alone a Driving Licence!. I was once refused access to a hotel in Madrid because I only had my driving licence with me and had left the passport at home (!). Seguridad Social don't like the DLs either.
I want one, handy wallet sized, serves all purposes, ID card. And I will have one again soon when I change nationality.
Anyway, driving licences are only valid forms of ID in slightly less official circumstances, eg shops. I am constantly in and out of the Hacienda where they won't even accept the compulsado version of my certificado de residencia let alone a Driving Licence!. I was once refused access to a hotel in Madrid because I only had my driving licence with me and had left the passport at home (!). Seguridad Social don't like the DLs either.
I want one, handy wallet sized, serves all purposes, ID card. And I will have one again soon when I change nationality.
Mar 12th 2009, 7:10 pm
#29
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,101
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
I'm not saying all hotels, everywhere, would refuse you lodgings if you don't have an official form of ID with you (not a driving licence....I had that). I'm just saying it happened to me once in Madrid and if it happened once it can happen again. When I tried to explain to the receptionist that (in my opinion) my driving licence was a valid form of ID he just looked amazed at my ignorance and asked me what I would have done if the police had stopped me en route. I had to go and find another hotel.
Oh and here's another one I had forgotten.....I once had a courier service refuse to deliver a package to me. The guy was standing there on my doorstep with the goddam package in his hand but wouldn't give it to me because I couldn't give him a valid form of PHOTO ID with my NIE on it. Drivers Licence and certificado de residencia just weren't good enough and my passport doesn´t have my NIE number!!!! I was livid. This happened about a month after my old tarjeta had expired and the wound was still very open at that point.
Last edited by Veleta; Mar 12th 2009 at 7:23 pm.
Mar 12th 2009, 7:46 pm
#30
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Torrevieja
Posts: 7
Re: Do the Spanish Hate the British.
Poor thing I actually feel sorry for it. My parents have theirs laminated but its not very practical if you having to take it lots of places on a regular basis. I also have a friend whos husband works for the Guardia Civil, and they say that they can fine you for not carrying a valid form of photo identification which is not your driving license. It must be ID card, or passport and if you carry a Spanish driving license you should also carry your residency certificate too. Most Guardia are understanding though, and only tell you to present it at their offices within a certain time frame, but then thats still a inconvenience if you work full time and have young kids
Sorry seems as if I have made this thread go off on a bit of a tangent from what the OP originally asked.
