[robin1234]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready I'm also a bit tired of the little jabs and jokes that are said with such a sarcastic undertone. Then again, I think we as British people are just as guilty of doing the same. I'm just still not used to being on the receiving end of it, although I would never have made such jokes to a foreigner in the UK. I find myself constantly verbally defending the UK, to the point that it almost came to blows once when a guy I knew through my wife called the British "cowards" for not having a right to bear arms. I grabbed him and pinned him against the wall, but fortunately it didn't escalate beyond that and we never hung out again. I guess I am one of the few British people who isn't entirely self-depreciating and am patriotic for my country. Perhaps living in America has given me a heightened sense of patriotism, but for the UK, not the USA. I have also gone from being a republican who wanted to get rid of the monarchy to someone who now supports the royal family for the stability the institution brings and how I would not want a US style presidential system for the UK.

It takes some getting used to.. but I recollect that it was much worse in the 1970s when many Americans thought it was OK to casually fund international terrorists who were murdering & maiming Irish and British people in the so called Irish Troubles. And, I recall that some Americans felt comfortable about taunting & abusing British people about the murder & mayhem... Many Americans at that time thought the US was immune from the consequences of the violence they sowed overseas, but it turns out some of it came home to bite them on the butt.

[Moggiemiss]

The 11+ and grammar schools. That system got more people out of poverty and into the middle and upper ranks than anything before and since, and where you lived wasn't a factor at all. Most of the prominent 50+ people got their chance from that. Most of the younger ones are from privileged backgrounds.

I do agree!

I am one of the fortunate ones to have had a grammar school education and I came from a poor working class background - parents had left school at 14 with no qualifications and always did low paid low skill jobs until they both became unemployed in their 40s and never worked again. I had a wonderful time at school, loved every minute of it and grateful for the doors that my education opened for me.

[sallysimmons]

Originally Posted by Bevm The 11+ and grammar schools. That system got more people out of poverty and into the middle and upper ranks than anything before and since, and where you lived wasn't a factor at all. Most of the prominent 50+ people got their chance from that. Most of the younger ones are from privileged backgrounds.

I don't think this is fair. The 11+ was long gone in my area when I went to school and I am far from coming from a privileged background. But I have been able to do well and so have many of my school mates. In fact the kid from the farm down the road from me is now one of the top analysts on Wall Street and another one runs a well-known software firm in Europe.

We were lucky to have good teachers and to be raised in a relatively crime-free area, but none of us had money.

As for "the good old days," I left England 22 years ago and things were far from rosy back then. I just think people forget. I grew up during 3 day weeks and rubbish piling up in the streets and football violence was way worse back in those days. Not to mention the food sucked! My dad used to reminisce about the good old days back then.

[Mummy in the foothills]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready Corporate America - the constant brown nosing, favouritism, backstabbing and cruelty of colleagues and managers and having to constantly look over my shoulder while sitting in a windowless cubicle. 'nuff said.

Well I hope today is better.
I have been to exercise, I wish this place had opened in our litle town many years ago. My 7 year old came with me and decided to tell everyone we are moving So I had to explain it all to all my exercise buddies not a single negative word from one, I am impressed.

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

OK. I'll try quick reply-I keep losing text!

I don't forget. I don't see 'good old days'. What I do see was an era when people were more neighbourly;-were simply a little kinder than they are today.
I don't believe for an instant that this malaise is particular to the UK/Australia/USA or any other first world country-its happening all over. I even believe it is almost evolutionary. Females have become even more aggressive in many cases than males!

What I see of those good old days is as I first said. Today is utterly cut throat. People are actively encouraged to compete with one another to such a degree that it has come down to the survival of the fittest.

There is no improvement in a society whereby the increasing divide between rich and poor is continually justified, and those who speak against it, or demonstrate against it-are vilified as lazy trouble makers.

The failures of systems implemented by brain dead bureaucrats are legend;-they are ageless; people have and always will suffer from them if they are on a middle or low income.

But people - society has changed for the worse. Bullying comes from the top (or bottom for purpose of definition!).

I don't know what's happening in your neck of the woods, but in Oz politicians are constantly backstabbing and plotting against one another. Our current PM took the job from the former PM in a late night coup. As I write this-he is about to challenge to get the job back.

What example does this set? Dominance/might is right. This example of behaviour has set a benchmark in my opinion. 'Dominance' has permeated society-the workplace-our schools. Bullying is rife-'if they can do it;-so can we'. Bullying has always existed of course-but today it's an art form.
______________________

EtU: we do all bag other countries; without question. BUT: Australians in the UK are liked;-they are. 'Poms' in Australia are not liked, they are tolerated, and only liked if they will join in the condemnation of all things english. (And it is England that cops the brunt of it).

(Hmmmm? I've had to 'copy' all the way through to put text back as it disappeared-even on QR. I'll post before it goes again).

[AllyS]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready Corporate America - the constant brown nosing, favouritism, backstabbing and cruelty of colleagues and managers and having to constantly look over my shoulder while sitting in a windowless cubicle. 'nuff said.

It's the same in Corporate Canada.

[Tel8]

Originally Posted by AllyS It's the same in Corporate Canada.

And corporate America. Sad innit? Doesn't really matter where you go, people are jerks.

[AllyS]

Originally Posted by Tel8 And corporate America. Sad innit? Doesn't really matter where you go, people are jerks.

Sad it is.

With less and less job security (the world over), people are watching their backs even more.

Some however, take it too far, and are prepared to tar and feather others to make themselves look good.