[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by Editha Victor Meldrew, you choose to live in Dubai, a country that has slave labour. How dare you get snooty about values in the UK! I wouldn't even visit Dubai, on moral and ethical grounds.

How very dare I!!!? That put me in my place didn't it?

Like somebody else mentioned, every place has something questionable about it. This doesn't mean one shouldn't be allowed to criticise or question things about UK.

I am fully aware that Dubai, as well as having many praiseworthy aspects of how it is run, also has some issues which would not be allowed elsewhere (including UK). Perhaps I should also refuse to live and work here because of this?

This is an expat opinion forum frequented mainly by people who do, or have, or plan to live overseas. If we started saying 'how dare you' to everyone who criticised Uk (or any other country) from afar, then it would be a very empty place.

You will see from other posts that I do actually like the UK - a lot!! I live in the UK for almost a quarter of the year. I have also made many positive comments about UK.

However I stand by my comments about Societal values in certain areas of society along with the right to be able to express this opinion.

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready After the day I've had today, I'm just about ready to jump on a plane. Me and the wife are due a long talk. Meldrew, the UK isn't the only place where society has worsened. Unfortunately, it's a global trend

Agreed

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by sallysimmons You might not think it does, but I do. (Even though I appreciate the offer to share your lawn ). As we get older, we always think things were better when we were younger. We cast a rosy glow over the past and see the present in the worst light because we don't understand the new mores as well as we understood the old ones. Today's young kids in hoodies will one day be bemoaning "the youth of today" and their kids will do the same and on and on.

I agree that the past can often look rosier and that memories can be selective. However is there also the slightest possibility that there are aspects of the past which in fact were actually better?

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by kiwibrit101 I think its just as simple as this........All of us have a sense of belonging that is inherent and the longer we are away from this the more it nags away. For some it becomes to much of a pull and we need to go back. So for good or for bad warts n all.....Blighty is always home (for me)...........So why am I still in NZ 20 years on? lol

Like Dorothy says "There's no place like home".

There's just a certain feeling when you are back home in UK which can only be described as familiarity. No matter how hard you try to assimilate yourself into another country, it will always be a foreign place.

Why are you still in NZ after 20 years? maybe it's the 'one more year' syndrome. 'Just another year to earn a bit more cash'.

So many expats I speak to start by saying 'The plan was to stay for 2 years and XX years later we are still here'

I also think the current economic situation makes people more likely to stay overseas as the prospects of finding employment in UK (or anywhere for that matter) have decreased over the last few years.

I planned to do 3 years and am still out 10 years after. However I plan to be back June 2013 - honest!

[Wub]

There's a lot of truth in what you say Victor. I too love the UK and hopefully, will be returning for good this summer yet (like everywhere else) there are down sides as well as up sides to this.

I get cheesed off with the negativity aspect but always try to counter it with a 'pithy', comment or two.
I get annoyed with the chavvy sorts who wander around with the oddest sense of 'entitlement'.
I become apoplectic at rudeness and ill mannered behaviour when I come across it and invariably make a bit of a stand.
I'm also hugely amused at the rampant political correctness you see everywhere - and don't get me started on doctors waiting rooms with their gloom and doom posters staring back at you from every available bit of wall space!!

For all of the above though, its still the best country in the world and when you've spent a fair bit of your working life out here in the Middle East as we have, the sense of belonging when we do go home is priceless.

[Ormskirk]

I Have lived in Wyoming for 14 years and have decided to move back to the UK my reasons for going home, My marriage is breaking down, the only friends I have are her friends so you know what that means,I suffer from arthritis and can't afford medical help as I have no insurance, my wife has had a lot of medical problems over the years, the result is that we are now filing bankruptcy. I had to sell my coin collection to pay for that. I find Wyoming to be a cultural desert unless you travel 100+ miles, I miss inteligent conversation, the theater, walks in the countryside, apint of real beer, real food. I came here with one suitcase and nothing else and I plan to leve the same way. My mother died three years ago and my family were unable to contact me, it was two months before I found out, I want to put some flowers on her grave. I am fedup of the insecurity here in the states, here money talks with little regard for the people involved. Sorry but I would rarther be broke in the UK than here. Regards David.

[Victor Meldrew]

Originally Posted by Ormskirk I Have lived in Wyoming for 14 years and have decided to move back to the UK my reasons for going home, My marriage is breaking down, the only friends I have are her friends so you know what that means,I suffer from arthritis and can't afford medical help as I have no insurance, my wife has had a lot of medical problems over the years, the result is that we are now filing bankruptcy. I had to sell my coin collection to pay for that. I find Wyoming to be a cultural desert unless you travel 100+ miles, I miss inteligent conversation, the theater, walks in the countryside, apint of real beer, real food. I came here with one suitcase and nothing else and I plan to leve the same way. My mother died three years ago and my family were unable to contact me, it was two months before I found out, I want to put some flowers on her grave. I am fedup of the insecurity here in the states, here money talks with little regard for the people involved. Sorry but I would rarther be broke in the UK than here. Regards David.

Good post and Good Luck

[heartofengland]

Originally Posted by Ormskirk I Have lived in Wyoming for 14 years and have decided to move back to the UK my reasons for going home, My marriage is breaking down, the only friends I have are her friends so you know what that means,I suffer from arthritis and can't afford medical help as I have no insurance, my wife has had a lot of medical problems over the years, the result is that we are now filing bankruptcy. I had to sell my coin collection to pay for that. I find Wyoming to be a cultural desert unless you travel 100+ miles, I miss inteligent conversation, the theater, walks in the countryside, apint of real beer, real food. I came here with one suitcase and nothing else and I plan to leve the same way. My mother died three years ago and my family were unable to contact me, it was two months before I found out, I want to put some flowers on her grave. I am fedup of the insecurity here in the states, here money talks with little regard for the people involved. Sorry but I would rarther be broke in the UK than here. Regards David.

Oh, David, you made me cry. I wish I could wave a magic wand and wisk you back to the UK right now. Wishing you the VERY best.

[Ormskirk]

I am sorry if my post saddens you but I have had enough,here in the states everyone from the goverment down tell you that you are free, back in england we dont need to be told, we know we are free and we have hundreds of years of history to stand by. Here in the states the only people who are truly free are the people with the wealth to afford that freedom David.

[Mummy in the foothills]

Originally Posted by Ormskirk I am sorry if my post saddens you but I have had enough,here in the states everyone from the goverment down tell you that you are free, back in england we dont need to be told, we know we are free and we have hundreds of years of history to stand by. Here in the states the only people who are truly free are the people with the wealth to afford that freedom David.

Hurry home David.
I totally agree, if I'm going to be poor I'd rather do it in UK.

[TheEmperorIsNaked]

Originally Posted by Wub There's a lot of truth in what you say Victor. I too love the UK and hopefully, will be returning for good this summer yet (like everywhere else) there are down sides as well as up sides to this.

I agree too. But I'll take an each way bet. I don't think there is disagreement here. It all depends on which aspect we each are looking at.

Whilst I agree it is all too easy to don the rose coloured,-I'm too damn cynical for that.

I agree with VM that society in the UK (as elsewhere!), has become nastier, more badly behaved and utterly self centred. I do not believe it was this bad 30/40/50? years ago. That ain't rose tinted I assure you!

(I actually liked a person answering a phone/getting a bill that was itemised and then totalled;-not like the matrix calculation of today which make it bliddy difficult to detect overcharging.....and etc, etc.,)

But: the thing is, the land has not changed. Midsomer scenes are not a mock up-that countryside exists and always will. Developers will never cover the UK in concrete-there would be a revolution!

That is what I want to return to;-and I stress,-I will put up with a higher cost of living AND chilblains in the winter to have that. It's the place I want, not the people (sorry!).

For EtU: I would take out Australian citizenship-at gunpoint. I cannot swear allegiance when like you, I see/hear repeated put downs of the British. ('Awful place/beer warm/they don't wash'......btw; I wish Aussies would realise what excessive heat does to their bodies.....).
Ping pong is not my thing. I've done 35 years here, and would never, ever return IF I ever had the opportunity to come home.

Of course the UK is not perfection-but for me culture/history/and the land is of the essence. I care little for the ladettes/chavs and now no longer need to put up with workplace bullying-which is getting worse.

UK...and though I loved her countryside, I left her land to make a better life for myself and daughter. I knew no one here, but got on with it. I was able to achieve that;-Australia afforded me that,-but it was my own efforts. And unfortunately like EtU, I have not made much dosh;-don't own a house to sell etc.

So? What I need is an auld fella with a heart condition and scads of cash......

[Bevm]

Originally Posted by Victor Meldrew I agree that the past can often look rosier and that memories can be selective. However is there also the slightest possibility that there are aspects of the past which in fact were actually better?

The 11+ and grammar schools. That system got more people out of poverty and into the middle and upper ranks than anything before and since, and where you lived wasn't a factor at all. Most of the prominent 50+ people got their chance from that. Most of the younger ones are from privileged backgrounds.

I suspect that the hopelessness of many of the impoverished young is because they don't see any model of a way out. 50 years ago they'd probably all know at least one kid at grammar school and/or university, heading for a different life.

Another is the industry and good apprenticeship schemes -- 3-5 years with obligatory college courses included.

Shopping mania's pretty bad, too, but some people would see that as an improvement in living conditions. I think shopping mania's everywhere, though, in the developed countries and in many of the emerging ones.

Bev

[Ethelred_the_Unready]

Originally Posted by Ormskirk I Have lived in Wyoming for 14 years and have decided to move back to the UK my reasons for going home, My marriage is breaking down, the only friends I have are her friends so you know what that means,I suffer from arthritis and can't afford medical help as I have no insurance, my wife has had a lot of medical problems over the years, the result is that we are now filing bankruptcy. I had to sell my coin collection to pay for that. I find Wyoming to be a cultural desert unless you travel 100+ miles, I miss inteligent conversation, the theater, walks in the countryside, apint of real beer, real food. I came here with one suitcase and nothing else and I plan to leve the same way. My mother died three years ago and my family were unable to contact me, it was two months before I found out, I want to put some flowers on her grave. I am fedup of the insecurity here in the states, here money talks with little regard for the people involved. Sorry but I would rarther be broke in the UK than here. Regards David.

Oh man, I'm really sorry for your loss and your circumstances. Your heart's not in it here and perhaps never has been. If you can, go home. The UK isn't at all perfect, but I would rather be poor anywhere else *but* the USA, given the fact that I am also living through pain because I can't afford treatment and the almost fascist way in which many Americans view the poor, even the working poor. It's a very lonely, car-oriented and materialistic place. People don't seem to socialise much or deviate from their circles of friends. I'm done.

[Ethelred_the_Unready]

Originally Posted by TheEmperorIsNaked I agree too. But I'll take an each way bet. I don't think there is disagreement here. It all depends on which aspect we each are looking at. Whilst I agree it is all too easy to don the rose coloured,-I'm too damn cynical for that. I agree with VM that society in the UK (as elsewhere!), has become nastier, more badly behaved and utterly self centred. I do not believe it was this bad 30/40/50? years ago. That ain't rose tinted I assure you! (I actually liked a person answering a phone/getting a bill that was itemised and then totalled;-not like the matrix calculation of today which make it bliddy difficult to detect overcharging.....and etc, etc.,) But: the thing is, the land has not changed. Midsomer scenes are not a mock up-that countryside exists and always will. Developers will never cover the UK in concrete-there would be a revolution! That is what I want to return to;-and I stress,-I will put up with a higher cost of living AND chilblains in the winter to have that. It's the place I want, not the people (sorry!). For EtU: I would take out Australian citizenship-at gunpoint. I cannot swear allegiance when like you, I see/hear repeated put downs of the British. ('Awful place/beer warm/they don't wash'......btw; I wish Aussies would realise what excessive heat does to their bodies.....). Ping pong is not my thing. I've done 35 years here, and would never, ever return IF I ever had the opportunity to come home. Of course the UK is not perfection-but for me culture/history/and the land is of the essence. I care little for the ladettes/chavs and now no longer need to put up with workplace bullying-which is getting worse. UK...and though I loved her countryside, I left her land to make a better life for myself and daughter. I knew no one here, but got on with it. I was able to achieve that;-Australia afforded me that,-but it was my own efforts. And unfortunately like EtU, I have not made much dosh;-don't own a house to sell etc. So? What I need is an auld fella with a heart condition and scads of cash......

I'm also a bit tired of the little jabs and jokes that are said with such a sarcastic undertone. Then again, I think we as British people are just as guilty of doing the same. I'm just still not used to being on the receiving end of it, although I would never have made such jokes to a foreigner in the UK. I find myself constantly verbally defending the UK, to the point that it almost came to blows once when a guy I knew through my wife called the British "cowards" for not having a right to bear arms. I grabbed him and pinned him against the wall, but fortunately it didn't escalate beyond that and we never hung out again. I guess I am one of the few British people who isn't entirely self-depreciating and am patriotic for my country. Perhaps living in America has given me a heightened sense of patriotism, but for the UK, not the USA. I have also gone from being a republican who wanted to get rid of the monarchy to someone who now supports the royal family for the stability the institution brings and how I would not want a US style presidential system for the UK.

[Ethelred_the_Unready]

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills What happened to you today?

Corporate America - the constant brown nosing, favouritism, backstabbing and cruelty of colleagues and managers and having to constantly look over my shoulder while sitting in a windowless cubicle.

'nuff said.