[dannigirl]

Originally Posted by Genesis Fair enough..I'll get my coat. On a more serious note I KNOW life here is better on a day to day basis (for us anyways) than what I left behind in the UK but I am talking about attitudes that prevail here, the way folk do stuff and the way the country is run.

Well surely the day to day living has something to do with governance, culture, the way "we" think....NZ is the way it is because New Zealanders (all and sundry) make it that way. It's not just luck that your day to day life is better......

[Stormer999]

The only issues that the UK suffer all stem from the simple fact that it is overcrowded. We can not do anything about the numbers of people in and still coming in because Great Britain has handed complete control for it's future over to Europe........
65 million people pushed onto a small island makes life difficult to say the least

[theghostofdustybin]

Originally Posted by Stormer999 The only issues that the UK suffer all stem from the simple fact that it is overcrowded. We can not do anything about the numbers of people in and still coming in because Great Britain has handed complete control for it's future over to Europe........ 65 million people pushed onto a small island makes life difficult to say the least

and yet lots of people bring competition, choice and diversity.
Which are strangely the same things that NZ lacks.

Can't have it all ways.

[dannigirl]

Originally Posted by theghostofdustybin and yet lots of people bring competition, choice and diversity. Which are strangely the same things that NZ lacks. Can't have it all ways.

EXACTLY!!! Still seems quite difficult for people to understand how a country with 4 million can or could compete in terms of buying power, competition, choice with a country of 60 million plus. There are down sides to both countries, difficult to compare really!

[Margaret Parkinson]

Originally Posted by Stormer999 The only issues that the UK suffer all stem from the simple fact that it is overcrowded. We can not do anything about the numbers of people in and still coming in because Great Britain has handed complete control for it's future over to Europe........ 65 million people pushed onto a small island makes life difficult to say the least

I agree the UK is overcrowded and getting more so every day. Everyone says NZ is a beautiful country but so is the UK but we cant see it for all the buildings. It must have been like NZ many many years ago. When we go to the Lake District and parts of Scotland then down to Lands End etc so much reminds us of our visits to NZ.

June

[jmh]

Originally Posted by dannigirl EXACTLY!!! Still seems quite difficult for people to understand how a country with 4 million can or could compete in terms of buying power, competition, choice with a country of 60 million plus. There are down sides to both countries, difficult to compare really!

Typical fair-minded kiwi!

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by dannigirl Well surely the day to day living has something to do with governance, culture, the way "we" think....NZ is the way it is because New Zealanders (all and sundry) make it that way. It's not just luck that your day to day life is better......

'Fraid not..the quality of my day to day life is down to me, and my choices. I chose a great area to live in, a great house and I have managed my affairs in such a way that the quality of my life and that of my family are excellent.

It's not thanks to any kiwi's attitude, not one, quite the opposite. I have had so many brick walls to put up with, huge loss of money and quite a bit of other crap, was misold the house by the agent (long dull story), the solicitors did a REALLY crap job, kiwi finance co took our $80k, builders never turn up as is the case with 90% of most people you ask to come do work for you, rubbish bullying work environment when I was unlucky enough to work locally, etc, etc. I could go on with a HUGE list of the incapabilities of way too many kiwis I have to deal with. But I won't.

And it is easy to say "sod off back to the UK" but I am happy with my life here, it's the crappy attitudes that prevail in this country that make life tricky but its worth putting up with for what we have.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by dannigirl Well surely the day to day living has something to do with governance, culture, the way "we" think....NZ is the way it is because New Zealanders (all and sundry) make it that way. It's not just luck that your day to day life is better......

And another point if you believe the governance and culture and the way kiwis think has something to do with the quality of my life, what about all the other thousands of people who lost billions and billions in the finance co melt down feel about said governance?? There is a case to argue that both main parties did nothing about the latter. Neither did the commerce comission.

What about the suicide rate? The awful death rate on our roads? The gang culture, the P epidemic, NZ's one of the worst place for child murders (mostly family relatives)? Leaky homes? Terrible domestic violence figures? Pike River (would never have happened in Oz apparently)? Terrible bullying stats? NZ's awful pollution record (when NZis sold as 'clean and green').

Is all the above born out of good governance? Probably not. Too much of a 'she'll be right, bury our heads where the sun don't shine' attitude.

I did not mean to go off on a rant and this is not personal. Not every kiwi is awful..I just seem to have dealt with more than my fair share I guess!!!

[Catchafire]

Originally Posted by Genesis What about the suicide rate? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate

NZ IS 29 ON THE LIST BEHIND FRANCE, SWITZERLAND AND FINLAND

The awful death rate on our roads?

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...ts/by-country/
NZ IS 137 ON THE LIST (HARDLY DEATH RACE 2000)

The gang culture

OK, I CAN'T FIND ANY INFO COMPARING TO OTHER COUNTRIES. BUT I SUSPECT THAT WE ARE HARLDY THE EL SALVADOR OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

, the P epidemic

CAN'T BE ARSED ANYMORE

, NZ's one of the worst place for child murders (mostly family relatives)? Leaky homes? Terrible domestic violence figures? Pike River (would never have happened in Oz apparently)? Terrible bullying stats? NZ's awful pollution record (when NZis sold as 'clean and green').

Genesis, whist I do not disagree with you regarding poor governance, it hard to find a country that has a shining example of exemplary government. Perhaps you can suggest one that is doing a good job?

And whilst these problems you have highlighted have a terrible impact on peoples lives, its just not happening around me or the community I live in to the point where I get all hysterical about it. These issues are not unique to New Zealand.

I glad you like it here in NZ (I think), I really do not get what you are banging on about sometimes. I am sorry that lost a load of money, but why do you think the government is somehow beholden to some how bail you out?

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by Catchafire Genesis, whist I do not disagree with you regarding poor governance, it hard to find a country that has a shining example of exemplary government. Perhaps you can suggest one that is doing a good job? And whilst these problems you have highlighted have a terrible impact on peoples lives, its just not happening around me or the community I live in to the point where I get all hysterical about it. These issues are not unique to New Zealand. I glad you like it here in NZ (I think), I really do not get what you are banging on about sometimes. I am sorry that lost a load of money, but why do you think the government is somehow beholden to some how bail you out?

Don't want the govt. to bail me out. All I wanted was robust legislation in place to reign in sharp practice such as third party related lending and all the other shite practices that abounded in the eventual loss of my money and countless others.

I expect to know that when I get 9% I am at 9% risk...not 13-15% risk which IS what I was exposed to (which I hasten to add I actively eschewed the likes of Bridgecorp etc offering this kind of %..you don't get 13% plus without an element of SEVERE risk). Good governance may have STOPPED $5 billion being lost. Hanover sold themselves as being able to 'weather ANY storm' when in fact all they were doing was spunking our wedge up the wall with gay abandon whilst they pocketed hundreds of millions and we by contrast lost hundreds of millions.

Feckless springs to mind. So do many, many expletives.

Is it purely chance that Mark Hotchin lives in Oz now? Nope, maybe it has something to do with the fact I heard that he apparently does not feel safe here in NZ any more. Hardly surprising as he has wrecked sooooooooooooooo many lives eh? How many good, honest business people have to skip the country when their companies go tits up?

From those in the know is a common refrain that both main political parties did nothing re fiscal regulation. Why do you think NZ was branded the 'wild west of the fiscal world'?? And as for the Commerce Commission, again from those in the know, an utterly useless, toothless administration.

And yes whilst all the crap and plight that prevails in NZ rarely if ever comes to my door step I was trying to point out to Dannigirl that if we had such good governance this country would not have sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many shitty, shitty stats that I bought to the fore.

IMO it is a tin pot, poorly run 'nana republic.

Only my opinion purely based on fact and experience.

Does not make my opinion right..but it is mine!

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by Genesis Don't want the govt. to bail me out. All I wanted was robust legislation in place to reign in sharp practice such as third party related lending and all the other shite practices that abounded in the eventual loss of my money and countless others. I expect to know that when I get 9% I am at 9% risk...not 13-15% risk which IS what I was exposed to (which I hasten to add I actively eschewed the likes of Bridgecorp etc offering this kind of %..you don't get 13% plus without an element of SEVERE risk). Good governance may have STOPPED $5 billion being lost. Hanover sold themselves as being able to 'weather ANY storm' when in fact all they were doing was spunking our wedge up the wall with gay abandon whilst they pocketed hundreds of millions and we by contrast lost hundreds of millions. Feckless springs to mind. So do many, many expletives. Is it purely chance that Mark Hotchin lives in Oz now? Nope, maybe it has something to do with the fact I heard that he apparently does not feel safe here in NZ any more. Hardly surprising as he has wrecked sooooooooooooooo many lives eh? How many good, honest business people have to skip the country when their companies go tits up? From those in the know is a common refrain that both main political parties did nothing re fiscal regulation. Why do you think NZ was branded the 'wild west of the fiscal world'?? And as for the Commerce Commission, again from those in the know, an utterly useless, toothless administration. And yes whilst all the crap and plight that prevails in NZ rarely if ever comes to my door step I was trying to point out to Dannigirl that if we had such good governance this country would not have sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many shitty, shitty stats that I bought to the fore. IMO it is a tin pot, poorly run 'nana republic. Only my opinion purely based on fact and experience. Does not make my opinion right..but it is mine!

And what do you reckon most sentient individuals would think of a country that until recently allowed 15 year olds to drive, where motor insurance is NOT mandatory and the alco level re driving is so high you can pass on a bottle of wine??

I know of 2 people who have admitted being pissed beyond belief yet they passed the NZ alco test (one being so surprised he bought the issue up on his chat show!!!).

And shortly after our clever, clever transport minister decided not to lower the alco level as 'kiwis were not ready for it yet' (ignoring manifold international reports that doing such WOULD save lives).

I have seen kiwis leave my house pissed, assuming they were walking home as it was only 1.5 ks away to find they drove home! Utter wankers!!!

[Stormer999]

Originally Posted by Margaret Parkinson I agree the UK is overcrowded and getting more so every day. Everyone says NZ is a beautiful country but so is the UK but we cant see it for all the buildings. It must have been like NZ many many years ago. When we go to the Lake District and parts of Scotland then down to Lands End etc so much reminds us of our visits to NZ. June

Absolutely agree If on the odd occasion you can catch these areas on a quite period they are fantastic. Problem is getting to them from where we live just one long traffic build up and fingers crossed there isn't a hold up. This last year we decided to go and look at the Orkney Isles but had to move dates to get accommodation....full up
Even rural roads through villages are now termed 'rat runs' where drivers are looking for short cuts to bypass traffic black spots and estate agents even set house values by access ease off and on your drive.

[welshrgeordie]

I have seen kiwis leave my house pissed, assuming they were walking home as it was only 1.5 ks away to find they drove home! Utter wankers!!!

Genesis U wanna come live in our village we have a few guys who call into the local pubs every night after work sometimes they have 4 pints of ale a lot of the time more and then drive home on winding country roads , it happens .....no matter where u live in the world ....It is however an education/tollerance thing by the country,s u live in goverment.
How ever that said if we have a party and I find people are to drunk to make a sensible choice to drive or not I make it for them !!!!! Its called being a responsible host ..just a thought

[dannigirl]

Originally Posted by Genesis 'Fraid not..the quality of my day to day life is down to me, and my choices. I chose a great area to live in, a great house and I have managed my affairs in such a way that the quality of my life and that of my family are excellent. It's not thanks to any kiwi's attitude, not one, quite the opposite. I have had so many brick walls to put up with, huge loss of money and quite a bit of other crap, was misold the house by the agent (long dull story), the solicitors did a REALLY crap job, kiwi finance co took our $80k, builders never turn up as is the case with 90% of most people you ask to come do work for you, rubbish bullying work environment when I was unlucky enough to work locally, etc, etc. I could go on with a HUGE list of the incapabilities of way too many kiwis I have to deal with. But I won't. And it is easy to say "sod off back to the UK" but I am happy with my life here, it's the crappy attitudes that prevail in this country that make life tricky but its worth putting up with for what we have.

If I didn't have a 14 week old baby in my arms I could write a longer response, but I can't.

If you think where you live and how great it is solely down to you then that is really sad. Who made the area you live in great, the neighbourhood fairies?

I am not saying that the NZ government is perfect by any means, nor that we don't have any social problems, but the way you skew things is really beyond belief.

Pretty much the entire world is in a terrible financial state, the UK did not have the proper financial regulation in place which is why millions in the UK have lost their entire pensions and there are huge austerity measures in place. Was that my fault? No, was it the government....depends who you talk to. Was it the bankers fault? Maybe? I too could write you an entire book of incompetence in my everyday life, it doesn't just happen in NZ you know.

I totally agree with Catchafire, the issues you state are not unique to NZ. I am sure I can find stats to match every link you put in. There are worrying elements in every country. I work in social services (in the UK), believe me I see the scum of the earth in this country day in day out, does it colour my whole view of this country? No, because I know and respect the fact that there are many great things about this country and I feel very priveleged as an immigrant to work and raise my family here despite all of the problems I could choose to dwell on. I try my hardest everyday to be a good citizen and feel I do my bit with the job that I do, hopefully contibuting to making social problems less of an issue. When and if we leave this country it will be a very sad day.

Just remember you are raising your children in NZ, they are kiwis (albeit with strong connections to Britain and other countries).

They are growing up in the environment, culture, governance and around the people you apparently so despise.

[Matelot]

I do get your drift Dannigirl.... but no way have millions of people lost their entire pension!