Great Stuff Lewys !

"Therefore I would advise your correspondent to read up on the history of the ordinary working class people of Britain and Ireland, especially Southern Ireland." *

* Not to far from my own recent family history sourrounded by Irish Catholics where the priest used to come and take the rent money "for the church." Dockers getting daily( if lucky !) work depending on how much they could give to the "Tally man" Outside toilet no heating,tin bath etc etc
Slightly off topic but relevant.

K-C ( with thanks to my Mum & Dad for giving me the best they could under the circumstances )

I guess we were in luxury then, we had a washboiler and a dipper to put hot water into the plumbed in bath - wartime tho' so no more than 5" of water - for three kids!
History is written ny Nobs for Nobs - there were roughly three groups of people running the Empire: the Norman Nobs on top same as back home, the "grammar grubs" who worked and often died to actually run the place, and the erks/tommies who did the dirty work that couldn't be entrusted to 'natives' and ..er mostly died same as back home.

AndyD 8-)#

(Didn't expect to be writing my take on social history tonight <g>)

Luxury Bloody Luxury ... and you tell the kids of today.. an'they won't believe y'they won't !

AFD and KC - you sound like a pair of grumpy old men !!

Dread -the young one !!
x

(sorry a bit off topic but unable to resist...x)

For those with Show Cause Notices, and all of us soon to have them, a very risky potential option, soon to be offered by Advocates all over Goa. Yes, the very same Advocates who advised you that purchase was legal and ushered you through the registration process, or set up your Agreements of Sale, or Five Year Lease :

Google this for 'compounding' i.e. ‘Compounding of contraventions’ can be understood as a lay man to be a method to compromise or settle the matter either before or after adjudication, but certainly before enforcement of the order of the court. There are various advantages of compounding under any legislation, if it is done before the trial by the court, wherein either of the parties to the dispute which is at fault willingly agrees to its fault and a compromise is done between both the parties without the matter being adjudicated by the court. Compounding saves the parties from the hassle of spending a lot of money, time and energy in lengthy legal proceedings. In a country like India where there are thousands of cases pending in the court ‘compounding’ is a good way of settling disputes or matters.

[PDF] COMPOUNDING OF CONTRAVENTIONS: FEMA, 1999.
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
'Compounding of Contraventions under FEMA, 1999' and a reference has also ...... The salient features relating to compounding of an offence are given below: ...
banking.indlaw.com/search/articles/?01d10d2c-572b-430b-a83f...

N.B I think it extremely doubtful that such a compromise by fine would be the end of the story (even if it was offered in the first place) for any foreigner property owner found not to be a 'person resident in India' within the definition of FEMA (i.e subject to the Adjudicating Officer's ruling on the individual's residential status at time of purchase).

Firstly, it would require the foreigner to declare themselves in breach of FEMA, an admission of guilt which would sanction the powers of confiscation and fine in FEMA 13.

Secondly, any deal on penalty of fine may end up just another money pit even if you were to trust the relevant ruling authority.

Thirdly, would they officially legitimise your purchase and leave you in peace, or able to sell? I doubt it. Would the sums add up and the stress be worth it? No.

Some conclusions :

a) sell up by any means and get out while you can (you win)

b) continue to fight it diplomatically and through the courts, even if there has already been a ruling against four foreign nationals who challenged in court, and lost (what kind of odds would Ladbrokes offer on you winning?)

c) stay under the radar until they catch up with you and hope you have popped your clogs by then (even if your property won't be heritable to your beneficiaries, only the legal mess may possibly be heritable). (You may have had good use of your property, but Goa will have had good use of you, and do you you really want to continue supporting an economy increasingly resembling a slum).

d) trash your property to render it valuable only by land, not built structure (you still lose).

e) if you still really want to live in India full time and are insane, set yourself up to be put on a petty criminal charge (a couple of tolas will do), dispose of your passport, and keep the case out of court. Whilst on charge you will not be allowed to leave India until your case is heard, so no more visa hassles but that's you stuck in India; a trick much favoured by over staying Nigerians and others with nothing to lose (since you're obviously already insane, it won't matter to you whether you've won or lost).

babu1,
unfortunately the PDF article you refer to will not download (it's 'damaged').
What makes you think that advocates are going to offer this?
And where did you hear that four foreign nationals challenged in court, and lost?

cheers - AndyD 8-)#

Whether it is true or not have heard a rumour that from lst December, NO Foreign National will be able to sell. Not saying it is true.

well afaik <g> FN's not of Indian origin can't register a sale now - so are you saying that PIO's are going to be blocked?
(I'm told this did happen when the block first came in but there were red faces all round and PIO's where allowed to register)

AndyD 8-)#

God only knows.

er... not very helpful Noni

AndyD 8-)#

google the article, it downloads fine - it's a 48 page document compiled by an Indian law partnership, gives an entire history of FERA to FEMA, and explains compounding (i.e. quick financial settlement for admission of contravention). Am certain this will not be offered to foreign nationals, even if your advocate advises you it will.

I was being sarcastic about the advocates, meaning it'll prove another nice earner for those who have already been complicit taking money and failing in their professional duties so far. All around, every Indian 'professional' is making money out of foreigner's property plight, while foreigners are being fleeced of cash and threatened with confiscation of assets and penalty.

I am sketchy on the cas., but I'm sure you were aware of it at the time? It was covered in the local press at the time , though not as a lead story. My press cuttings are in Goa, and I am not.

From memory, it was about 2007/2008 when two couples filed a case at the Bombay Bench of the High Court, Goa but their 'petition and prayers ' were dismissed. They were Brits from Colva (I think) and they had joined together to accuse the State Government of acting illegaly in closing the Registrar.

I'm certain I had an exchange of posts with you at the time - probably on this thread. I argued the dismissal of the case was a slap down and afurther step back since the judge in his verdict now gave legal sanction to State officials to pay particular attention to Forms I & XIV.

This is where they are going to trap foreign individuals who bought old properties, not 'off plan' from builders.

I have checked Forms I & XIV of all of my surrounding Goan neighbours and their properties are mostly registered as 'agricultural' or 'orchard' land. Sanad conversions have not taken place.

But then, these are aam aadmi Goans, and they are not being persecuted out of their houses. Nor are the resort complexes who have built in the NDZ in violation of CRZ III and encroached on the protected beach land.

Will send you a text version of the 48 page 'compounding' document if you wish!

Regards.

Babu I remember this case,I took particular notice at the time because our advocate talked none stop about if.The fact if it went through for the Brits it would open the door for us all.It waa in the local media in Goa
GC

I found this story very worring indeed - after all, if the High Court had already ruled that closing the Registry was legal why are we all arguing and petitioning that it is illegal?
I don't remember seeing anything in the media so if anyone has more info I would be very pleased to know about it.
I checked with a lawyer today who said that there was a case in the High Court some time ago but it failed on a technicality (wrong court possibly).
I don't see where Form I and XIV come into it though.
More info or links anyone please?

AndyD 8-)#

OK I think I've found it - here's what I said on Nov 1st 2007:
Unfortunately the Herald's archives only go back one year, and I can't remember any outcome. When I've got time I'll trawl thru my bag of cuttings.

Andyd 8-)#

AndyD 8-)#

This is always going to be a no win situation for the British. Corruption is too deeply ingrained in all aspects of Indian life, and they change the rules and law at will. The Goans are very friendly when they want our money, but really they despise us, and who can blame them? How many holiday makers have gone to the shacks laden with gifts only to be met with ingratitude? How many divorcees, old enough to know better, have set up with young men only to be cheated out of their life savings? How many people have bought houses, cars, bikes, or businesses in an Indian's name, only to lose the lot? We would not behave like this at home, why do it in Goa. Those of us with dark skins are adapted to live in hot countries, those of us with white skins are adapted to cooler climates, and that is where we should stay. Now I'm off to Bradford to find myself a nice young man and give him all my money!