Yeah, you're right, I give up. I have been won over by your posts. Damn you and your forceful argument!

(I'm only posting this in the hope that you get bored and sod off - picking a story per day from the net and putting a link on BE in the hope that everyone will suddenly agree with you is about the laziest form of cretiny I can think of).

Everyone knows crime is awful, we don't need a **** to remind us every day.

No-one is arguing with you. This is like groundhog day.

If I give you some Karma will you leave us alone?

And just to force the point, there was someone on here who was eventually banned for repeatedly soley posting up links to newspaper articles iirc

Ededed, you have not contributed one bit to this thread. How about sticking to the topic? I am not likely to just Sod off, my views on the topic of this thread are that 2010 should be avoided, and you are safer watching from your living room at home. What useful information have you posted here that contributes anything to this thread? Instead you are on the attack all the time about my posts. The news stories I have posted should be a wakeup call to those that are oblivious as to what’s going on in SA and how dangerous it is. That has been my contribution to this thread.

If you disagree with my view, and nothing wrong with that, then at least come back with some real explanations as to why I could be wrong. Quote some good news stories etc, come back with evidence that people visiting in 2010 don’t need to be very very concerned. I admit I have gone over the top with all the horror news stories I have posted, however these are shocking stories, and reading such things makes me wonder how on earth is SA going to pull it off. But the violence and random attacks in these articles, especially reading about innocent kids being shot in the head runs my temper. SA is my country too, and I am greatly concerned for my family that is still living there.

Come back with something that could make this debate at least go somewhere, instead of name calling and making out that I am forcing my argument. I don’t have an argument, I am just posting news that happens on a daily bases in SA. And tourists need to be aware.

Point taken, I take it then that the same goes for “good news” articles? too many of them are bad too. Not many available anyway, because they are like hens teeth so guess we don’t need to worry too much about those.

Cyan, back to your question. I will refrain from posting the news link, but you can google it if you are in doubt.

As for the 2010 Soccer World cup, it was announced yesterday that the German world cup stars travelling to South Africa will be expected to wear bullet-proof vests if they were to venture away from the hotel at any time. Moving outside the hotel area will be kept to an absolute minimum and if they do venture away from the hotel, they will need to be escorted by armed security guards.

These are extra steps that they will be taking because of the high crime rates in SA.

This does not send out a very nice message about South Africa, and it just back up my claims that the 2010 WC is being held in a very dangerous place. Sure security measures for players in any country is always necessary, however in this case it seems Germany is on the ball with the crime rates in SA and are putting in much more extreme measures to protect the players while in SA. I wonder how long it will take for other countries to follow.

Bad news for SA.

So Kiwi, in your opinion is it reasonable to expect the Germans to wear bullet proof vests, and do people in SA generally wear them?

The germans have clearly not put enough thought into this, what about the head and legs? Of course the average people in SA don't wear them. (would we still see 54murders per day if they did). And no I don't exactly see it as very reasonable, there are plenty of other alternatives at keeping the players safe.

LOL at the thought of the germans walking around the V&A Waterfront in bulletproof vests!

For once we agree - bad news indeed. This is getting big coverage here - (although most of it fairly negative towards the Germans it must be said). Man United were here last year without massive security, the T20 cricketers were wandering around the malls in their training kit just weeks ago, NZ and Oz teams come here every year for tri-nations and are regularly out partying in the clubs until the early hours and none of these see the need for bullet proof vests.

Still - it does send a message. We'll see once the world cup draw is made in a month or so how quickly the flights sell out (all ticket phases have been massively oversubscribed so far) - and if the general football supporting public share the same views. I think that we'll see them come in droves and the vast majority will have a great time. Of course there will be problems - if you send thousands of rich white people wandering about with expensive cameras and watches into an areas of desitution and poverty you are asking for trouble.

If you get this type of advice from your security people, you would have to think twice about going, or think twice about your security people.

My point has been made (maybe hundereds of times) that I actually live here - have done for 6 years, have never seen evidence of the warzone you bang on about. Me and my mates sit around the braai on a Sunday and try and figure out where these no-go areas are. None of us have been mugged, hijacked etc - in fact all of us who have lived in the UK and moved back were victims of crime in the UK - all of us! So our point of reference is different to what is apparently going on. Sure we read about crime, but I don't know anyone who has been a victim - think about that. I know maybe a hundered people well enough to call them my friends, and none of them have been victims - and trust me, I ask. I know people who have died on the roads, but none who have even been burgled. Sitting in front of google praying for bad news about a country you claim to love so you can feverishly post it to prove your point doesn't help the debate.

My concerns with your posts are that you give the impression that there are gun battles on every street, no-one can live in safety, that everyone (yes, everyone) is likely to die or be attacked in their homes / cars when living here. All I am doing is providing perspective to your views. Debate should be balanced, and by trying to bully a point home with a continual stream of news when you don't show the alternative perspective is dangerous. I have never denied there is crime - but it is not something which makes me or the people I know change their behaviour to how I used to live in London. That's all I am saying.

Want some good news? FIFA think SA is safe enough for the world's biggest event. The T20 was staged here without incident and minimal security. The Nedbank Golf challenge brings people here in their thousands without problem. The Killers are coming next month (the band, not the hijackers). U2, Michael Jackson, Elton John and Lionel Richie play (or played here) in the last couple of years, Richard Branson, Clint Eastwood and Madonna have houses here, stringent banking controls have protected SA from the worst of the recession, petrol, cigarettes and beer are all cheap, golf courses are world-class, inexpensive and plentiful, and of course the weather is brilliant.

Finally, I would imagine that statistically you may not be safer watching the matches at home as you ascertain. Recent stats show that you are 30% less likely to die younger if you take holidays, and the number of tourists killed in violence watching sporting events in SA is so small as to not even register.

I think we agree that crime is awful, ok? But - I don't believe it should deter people from coming. Maybe we should agree to disagree on that?

I have some good news : Kiwibok isnt coming to our country to watch the world cup. Amen!

I do hope you end up watching the WC from your armchair at home, Kiwibok. You'll see stadiums packed with soccer loving fans from all over the world having a great time.
I hope the German team wears bulletproof vests on their outings between games .Theyll look like idiots ,and we do enjoy a good laugh every now and then between ducking bullets etc.

Will there be incidents of crime during the world cup ?...for sure.
We have hosted large events in just about all our major sporting codes, short of the olympics. Incidents during sporting events are historically very low and because of our reputation youll find visitors taking greater care and security measures at a peak.
Its gonna be great ,I cant wait

Cape Town CAN be a wonderfull city, unfortunantly the WC is being played in June July and if you like wind and rain like you get in the UK then go to Cape Town. The most stable patterns at that time is in Durban where you have a greater variety of things to see and do. Instead of one mountain it has an entire mountain range, it has the HLuluwe mfolozi game park it has beaches with WARM water. The most important feature is that it has realistic prices!! Cape Town can be very expensive.

I am in the travel business in the UK and we are having about a 60/40 split with a preferance for Durban at the moment.

Cape Town - Very bad weather that time of year. I lived in CT and know all about those freezing South Easters and rain.

Durban - Great weather but far more dangerous than CT.

If I were choosing, it would have to be Cape Town, despite the bad weather that time of year. Far more to do than Durban, and its a little safer! CT also offers much more for the average tourists than any other city in SA.

I'll be staying home and here is the big dramatic reason why..................







..couldn't really be bothered enough about footie to watch it let alone spend a fortune going to sit there and watch it. Say hi to the fans for me Jugs.

Well Jo'Burg is bloody freezing today. It's been 14 degrees all week - raining and misty. Like summer in Eastbourne.

I might even have to wear trousers on the golf course tomorrow. What is the world coming to?