bewillow

We are doing an out-of-Canada sponsored PR application. We are considering going to Canada before the decision, with a dual-intent entry for the non-Canadians. We are thinking of wrapping up things in the UK, like flat and jobs, and moving. (If PR is for some very unlikely not approved, we will appeal and worst case we will move back to Europe to some fun new place, so our intent is very pure!).

Q1: Do the Canadians citizens in the party need to, in any way, avoid becoming “resident” in order to not jeopardize the dual-intent entry of the non-Canadians? Is there any downside to saying (at the arrival airport) that the Canadian’s are moving to Canada and that the non-Canadians will be dual-intent visitors?

Q2: What ongoing connections do the dual-intent PR applicant’s need to keep in the old country, assuming they have sufficient resources for their duration in Canada? Is it required to keep a house or a job in the old country? My guess is neither, but I wanted to check.

Q3: On what basis do you ship personal belonging to Canada? Easy for the Canadian citizens, but what about the dual-intent people? Again, will shipping things jeperdize the dual-intent application, and if so is the solution to store personal belongings in overpriced UK storage until the PR is issued? Or should my wife give me all her shoes and I loan them back to her whenever she wants to use them in Canada? Or can she just have her possessions in Canada as a visitor? (In any case, a lot of the stuff was purchased by me, but I can not reasonably claim to own the women's clothing). Or can she just have her possessions in Canada as a visitor?

ESarge

You know, I think out of Canada spousal sponsorship is about the fastest way in. Your lowest risk option is to wait a few months.

You're asking specific questions about requirements for dual-intent. As far as I can tell there aren't any specifics. It's a judgement done by the border officer. (I'm not an immigration expert so read this with a grain of salt).

So, think about how to convince the border officer that the non-Canadians have the will and the means to leave if PR is denied. Feel free to call CIC to discuss how to do this.

The Europe thing is probably useful.

I wouldn't try and be clever about your wife's belongings. It'd pretty obvious what you were doing to anyone who cared to check.

There is a write-up on the CBSA site about the categories under which you can import goods duty-free. I highly recommend you go find it and put yourself under a category. Otherwise you'll end up paying a *lot* in duty. The form is called "Goods to Follow".

bewillow

We are already doing a spousal sponsored PR application. Underway! We would just like to be in Canada for the start of the school year.

I am not tying to be clever - just to try to figure out the requirements. If it is a requirement that we should leave most of my wife and daughter's posessions in the Uk and only ship them later, we can arrange that.

I will look through the Customs forms for hints.

bewillow

Has anyone actually moved to Canada after they have submitted sponsored family PR applications but before they have been approved?

bubblescope

Yes I have. We sent in our application in March and I quit my job in New York and moved in May. I was worried about dual intent too and sent some of my stuff with the hubby in a car across the border, thankfully he wasn't stopped for inspection. Then I took the rest of my worldly possessions with me by air keeping within the 2 bag limit and I wasn't checked there either. I don't think the IM officer asking how long you are here can see exactly what you've checked in.

bewillow

It seems funny. If CIC is really happy to deal with dual intent, then the applicant should be able to move their stuff to Canada openly and even shut down their old life. It may well be allowed right now, but it is not clearly laid out.

kleinluka

You can read how dual intent is applied in the CIC operating manual. This doesn't cover customs stuff as far as I remember or shipping over stuff but if you are shipping stuff over before you have been approved as PR it might appear to the border officer that you are attempting to settle without proper status. I would avoid doing this until you have your PR. VISITING is fine, but shipping stuff over for an eventual move might be a bit risky.

CIC Operating manual on dual intent:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...2009/ob131.asp

bewillow

We entered Canada in August, with dual intent. IT WAS VERY STAIGHT FORWARD AND PROFESSIONAL! I would almost call it relaxing. I thought I would describe our experience so that anyone thinking of doing the same will have details to work with in making their decision.

Just to recap: I am Canadian. My application to sponsor my wife has been accepted. Her PR application, and that of our daughter have “started processing” according to ECAS. We have been living in London, but wanted to move to Canada before the start of the school year.

As indicated earlier in this thread, I was unsure of the logistics of a dual intent entry. Did we need to show my wife had enough money to “support herself”, and how to deal with her possessions in the container as “goods to follow”??

In preparation for the entry, I prepared a binder containing the sponsorship+PR application, as well as originals of all certificates (birth and marriage). We carried the Sponsorship confirmation letter from CPC-M. And bank statements. And a print out of the recent CIC notice about dual intent http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...2009/ob131.asp I also carried a copy of a letter to CIC from their immigration lawyers that a friend carried when they did the same thing moving from the US to Canada.
After a very easy flight, we arrived in Montreal in mid afternoon.

I filled out the Canadian landing cards in age order and left some sections blank (where it was unclear what answer applied to all of us). Since there were five of us, we needed two cards.

The primary screening was easy. I explained that we had applied for PR for my wife and daughter, and that we wanted to make a “dual intent” entry. The officer who dealt with us understood exactly what I wanted and was straight forward, efficient and pleasant. She had me reorganize the landing cards, so that the Canadians were on one card (the easy one), and the two Brits were on the other card.

We had to wait 5 minutes for secondary screening. I again explained the situation to the second officer, and requested a one year temporary resident permit for the two Brits. He also understood exactly what we wanted to do. He had us wait and then called us back. He had found the PR application of my wife and said he could stamp the passport “now”. I asked if we could do entry for one year, so that we would not be forced to renew the temp permit in case the CIC London processing was slow. (I now realize it would have been less work for him to just stamp our passport and then we would be on our way). He agreed to do it for one year, so we went and waited some more.

He gave us back the two passports into which were stapled “entry records” that are used for the one year permission. He explained, to make sure we knew, that my wife would not be able to work. He also explained that in Canada all children are required to be in school, and that our daughter would have to attend school. We both grinned and assured him that we would ensure she attended!

That was done with immigration. They had no interest in looking through our PR application, birth certificates, marriage certificates or bank account balances. Both officers knew about dual intent entries and this was clearly not the first they handled. It was very smooth and easy. In all it took about 1 hour. There are even water coolers and clean bathrooms in the waiting area.

We then went to Canada Customs with our list (provided by the packers) of goods to follow. Before leaving London we had shipped a container to Canada. The officer who processed us made a passing comment about this kind of entry (dual intent), but then was quick and efficient in processing us. She politely asked “if she could” photocopy our list of goods to follow. She explained that sometimes people don’t want it photocopied so she has to copy it by hand.

We had three baggage trolleys (too much) with us and three tired children. The customs officer asked if she could help and offered to push one of the baggage trolleys out to the waiting grandparents.
Summary: Very smooth, very easy, zero problems.

bewillow

On the weekend we did a day trip to the US. All went very smoothly. Nice US border agent. And reentry into Canada was also smooth. They did not even restamp the passports (as we have a one year entry from originally arriving in August).

bewillow

Another small update...

My wife got the PR visas for herself and our daughter from CIC London last week, and then flew back to Toronto.

On arriving she initially talked with the primary immigration desk. They diverted her to secondary screening. The officer asked her all sorts of questions of why she was already living in Canada. The questions ended when my wife mentioned that I am a Canadian citizen, and the officer (finally) realized she had made a dual intent entry last August. (Note to anyone do this: Be sure to explicitly mention "Dual Intent Entry" to the officer)

She then indicated that she did not want to land right away, as she had an appointment this week with the local CIC office to land both her and her daughter. The secondary screening person insisted she was required to land on arrival to Canada, and so she did it then. Other posters have mentioned there is an option to land or not when you arrive off the flight: it is not clear why she was not given this option also. Maybe because she was not VISITING Canada as a tourist and was instead already primarily resident here.

JAJ

On a previous thread you mentioned a child aged 12 where your wife appears to be the sole person with parental responsibility ... however proving this to CIC satisfaction seems to be a random process, so I would lean towards allowing the process to complete before you try to move.

Also, you don't say if you're a British citizen ... if not, it would be worth investing the time necessary to become naturalised.

bewillow

We considered this issue, but decided we wanted to be in Canada for the start of school in September 2009.

In the end we got a carefully worded letter from our daughter's bio(father) saying that he is happy for her to travel with us (to lots of different places), and he has no objection to her immigrating to Canada with us. We also filled out the hard-to-find form IMM 5604 (07-2008) E "DECLARATION FROM NON-ACCOMPANYING PARENT/GUARDIAN FOR MINORS IMMIGRATING TO CANADA" (which is hidden inside http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/3908e.pdf ). Both the letter and the IMM5604 were then notarized by the consular section of the CHC London (amazingly at no charge!), a long with a notarized copy of his passport bio-data page.

Anti-climatically, when we entered Canada last August, the airport Immigration Officer had no interest in our daughter's (bio)father or parental responsibility.

Done. I would not want to have to be sponsored by my wife to go back to the UK... to have to prove I can speak British, and do the life-in-the-UK trivia game.

bewillow

Just to note, my wife and daughter both got OHIP coverage (as out-of-Canada PR applicants) 3 months after the August dual-intent arrival. More details at http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8113564