[Pugsy]

Check this out. I think it's the most viable personal solution to home invasions, to have a plan, have some training and be prepared to use your arms. These animals show no mercy in attacking families in their own homes and deserve what they get.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...345327,00.html

[ForeignGal]

I think there's more to this story. For people to be able to aquire these weapons, bullet vests and cars they must be part of an organised group with money and I suspect this guy who was targeted isn't so innocent.

That aside if I did shoot an intruder armed or unarmed, what are the consequences in SA?

[whalewatcher]

Originally Posted by ForeignGal I suspect this guy who was targeted isn't so innocent.

Any reason for thinking this? To someone familiar with SA in recent years it seems like a strange thing to say.

[ForeignGal]

I just explained my reason!

[ForeignGal]

Why do people want to argue all the time on this site. It's quite depressing!

[Mitzyboy]

Originally Posted by ForeignGal Why do people want to argue all the time on this site. It's quite depressing!

I dont think he was arguing ......... just asking you a question

[ForeignGal]

Fair point!

[Pugsy]

Well, actually (sadly) neither guns, vests nor police outfits are difficult nor expensive to get hold of.

I myself was the victim of a home invasion, did I deserve it, my poor husband, our baby...? Perhaps by ignorance we did, perhaps by trusting and employing certain people in our home, always thinking these things happen to other people. Perhaps by stupidity, naivety?

People must make a stand against it, to make those who perpetrate this kind of crime think twice. It can happen anytime, anywhere, to any family.

[whalewatcher]

Foreigngal, I can't see why anything in the original article to indicate why the homeowner might not be 'so innocent'. He lives in Centurion, has handgun and ammo, is the victim of an armed home invasion. All quite above board.

When I first arrived in SA in the mid-90's I was a bit shocked at the amount of handguns being carried around by ordinary people.

[ForeignGal]

So it's just a hunch, just like someone had a completely inaccurate hunch that I was lying the other day!

Anyway, if I shoot an intruder who is armed or not, what would the repercussions be for me. What is the law in SA as in Britain we would be banged up!

[fa0019]

Originally Posted by ForeignGal So it's just a hunch, just like someone had a completely inaccurate hunch that I was lying the other day! Anyway, if I shoot an intruder who is armed or not, what would the repercussions be for me. What is the law in SA as in Britain we would be banged up!

I believe is rather difficult to legally get your hands on a firearm these days. As I understand you can apply if you have permanent residency but have to prove you need the firearm and be able to store it in a safe at all times.
In essence it would be very difficult and take quite a while. One way of improving your chances would be to join a gun club.

The laws are very strict in South Africa in terms of shooting intruders, people are and have been prosecuted for firing first or on those who do not have firearms (but do have knives etc). I recall a recent incident of a 72 year old man who was charged with murder for killing a intruder in his house who only carried a knife.

Just to add to the debate.... In the UK often, victims of gun crime are often those directly involved in gun crime themselves but this is certainly not the case in South Africa.
Its because of this that people have forgotton the small pleasures in life... I recall a few years ago when I was first dating my partner who had recently arrived in London from Cape Town... She was amazed and almost afraid that we were walking down the Southbank prominade in London at night as in Cape Town its not advisable to walk anywhere...especially at night.

I guess thats the problems with life in South Africa... to live there due to the very real danger of violent crime you miss what we in the UK take for granted... and still your safety is still not gauranteed.

[Pugsy]

The laws are similar to the UK. South Africa is not without law, just lawless. The police at such an incident would ask what other options were open to you before having to use deadly force and a defence of self-defence is understandable and acceptable in many cases (not in the case of a fleeing suspect, shot in the back obviously). We were told by the police to "shoot to kill" if our intruders returned. "Enjoy the rest of your evening". Great, thanks for that...!

Just in connection with the illegal distribution of arms. An Mpumulanga cop was suspended in December for selling and renting guns from the amnesty cache!!

[Daxk]

FG, to add to the perspective, I owned two firearms,both of which my wife could not only shoot accurately enough to make someone uncomfortable,but was also able to clear a stoppage and strp the automatic if need be.
She did'nt enjoy it, it was part of living in SA to be prepared.
Since the Jeppestown Massacre,the SAPS have lightened up a bit, The law is reasonable force and that is decided with 20/20 Hindsight vision months later in a Court of Law.
You are automatically charged with manslaughter and the Prosecutors office will decide wether to take it to a trial or not.
Rule of thumb was shoot second. (and hope the other guy misses)

The problem is you do not dare go to Court without legal representation, which is for your own account.
A client of mine was nearly bankrupted when he had to defend himself against the charges as the prosecutor felt that as they were still breaking open the security gate ,his life was not at risk yet.
He now lives overseas.

The other problem is that your firearms are impounded for forensics and the trial, or, as in my case, very difficult to get a firearm licence again, even tho they were stolen from me in an armed robbery.

PS: Bulletproof jackets can be purchased at any gun store in SA, when I donated two to the Community Policing Forum, they were just over a R1000 each

[ForeignGal]

This info is very interesting, thanks, and I hope I didn't offend anyone!

[Chango]

It's interesting that this thread steered in the direction of gun laws, which are only aimed at reasonable citizens; not invalidating the thread btw.

When I read the article, my first reaction was amazement at the size of the crew, and the tension which must exist in the lives of the good people who must endure, day after day, the possibility that they're next in line. Here, I never wonder of the skirt height of the victim of a rape; there's no devil's advocating around the comparative wealth of a robbery victim.

Why don't we do this exercise: sit quietly and get into the mindset of a man, preparing to commit invasion, robbery and rape, possibly murder if there's too much resistance. And I mean really concentrate and try to enjoy yourself, all criminal trepidation and nefarious intent. Most of us cannot do this, thankfully. Does your character deserve to go on another day poisoning and ending people's lives or enjoyment of life in some cases? The answer is no.

Head shots folks, if you can.

PS: my four oldest children, 2 girls and 2 boys, who are 16 and below are all better shots than me now. I blame the excess of coffee, but probably just better.