Great post! Karma sent.

Plenty of people at the beginning of this thread were mouthing off that there was little/no bad behaviour 20 years ago when they were growing up which is what prompted my comment.

So what do this and this
mean then?

So the doctors are wrong & you know better? The studies that have been done that show a dysfunction in the frontal lobe of children with ADHD are wrong then? The fact that when my kids go to the psychologist & get hooked up to a machine, their brainwave patterns are markedly different to children without ADHD means nothing then?


So exactly how much do you know about the symptoms, causes & treatment of ADHD then Vash? Because from everything that you have written in this thread, it seems to be diddly squat . If you knew anything at all you would know that most of those disorders I mentioned don't have a definitive physical test for diagnosis & you would know that ADHD is in many cases just as consistant, distinctive & well-documented as the rest of them. Ever heard of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-IV (which Larissa mentioned above) which is used as the textbook for diagnosis for many many mental health & psychological problems including ADHD? So how is ADHD diagnosed, how it is assessed & what treatments are available? How many ADHD children do you personally know & how many have you had to live with or be involved enough with to see how the disorder affects their & their families life?



Errrrrrr, then why do you seem to be oblivious to the fact that Asperger's Syndrome (incidentally I have 2 friends with children who suffer from it) is right next to ADHD with regards to similar symptoms, similar treatments & similar diagnosis & in fact there have been cases where ADHD & Asperger's kids have been mis-diagnosed as the other condition?


No, it seems it's just one psychological problem you have a problem with & are bad-mouthing.

And comments like this just show how little you really do know about ADHD.

Perhaps you could become more informed if you read some information about it like this website http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

It's american rather than Australian, it's not definitive & the small part about who can & can't diagnose & prescribe drugs isn't correct for Qld at least (there are only a handful of specialist pediatricians & psychiatrists in the private sector that can diagnose & prescribe medication in Qld), but it gives a good overview of it. There are also plenty more out there if you want to look, like these aussie ones http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/public-...eria_child.pdf & http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/public-...treatment.html


When you have become a bit more knowledgable about ADHD, come back & have a rational discussion with me about it instead of throwing around wild & baseless comments about other people's medical problems & lives .

Its a hole lot of crap... Its the parents fault.

Funny, I quoted the same statistics (3-7%) three times earlier in the thread & so did nickyc, maybe we are on ignore?

Rightio then round 1 to Mrs D

Vash.....Vash.....VASH...VA....

oh never mind..game over!

oh thats a very rash statement to make.



lolly

Holy cow, run for cover

I totally agree with you there. I have a 'difficult' son, and no he's not just a naughty boy, as his very experienced teacher he has now says he is just 'different'. His last teacher labelled him as ADHD and said he should be on medication, I was horrified. I then looked at other things and found this website www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/ and it changed mine and my sons life.

Someone said before 'why would you start giving your kids chemicals' (i.e. adhd medication), have you looked at how many 'chemicals' there are now in every day foods. 20 years ago there was no such thing as ADHD, 20 years ago food didn't contain so many chemicals!! Fast food seems to have become an everyday thing now, in my childhood days, fast food was saved for birthdays!! I struggle to keep my kids on an 'additive free' diet as there aren't many foods that don't contain some sort of chemical, and it is extremely frustrating. I now make my own bread and bake my own biscuits, just like my mum did, the kids are much better for it, and I'm not your idealistic picture of a 'stay at home mum', I work and I run my own business. My son has actually started to make his own bread now!!

I watched the Jamie Oliver series on Aus T.V here and was appalled at what UK school kids were recieving as their school lunch and then to go home and get the same 'convenient' chemical filled food dished up for dinner. It's just appalling!!

anyway, I could go on all night about this and no one would take any notice anyway, so I'll get off my soap box and just be relieved that I have found the answer to my sons 'behaviour' and know he won't be going on any 'drugs'!!

Did I miss a few posts? I don't remember anyone saying that there was little or no bad behaviour when they were growing up.

Sir Les said:

Jad'n'rich said:

Hutch said:

Exactly what it says.

I didn't say that it doesn't exist. But I am skeptical about the existence of ADHD as a psychological disorder. I went on to say that I think it is more likely to be sociological.

No, not at all.

I think you're generalising. As I understand it, frontal lobe dysfunction is believed to result in a certain form of ADHD. It is not believed to be the sole cause of the disorder.

Not necessarily. But the difference may not be entirely due to ADHD or the frontal lobe.

A small amount. Not as much as you.

The fact that ADHD seems to be massively over-diagnosed (with ADHD medication massively over-prescribed) suggests to me that this issue is nowhere near as clear-cut as you believe.

I don't know all the ins and outs of diagnosis, assessment and treatment. But I do know that they vary considerably. This does not inspire confidence in the view that ADHD is a well-defined disorder with a specific set of traits.

I have known two families with ADHD children, neither of which were on medication. They coped very well, and the children were a delight to be with.

I am not oblivious to the fact at all. How did you get that idea?

I am aware that ADHD is believed to have links with Asperger's. But if this is the case, then ADHD should be seen as a part of the autistic spectrum - and not a psychological disorder at all!

Why do I say this? Because autism is a neurological disorder, not a psychological one.

I don't have a problem with it, and I'm not bad-mouthing it.

You are being very aggressive. It seems that you have taken my comments personally for some reason. Exactly why you have done this, I am at a loss to say. I haven't been attacking you, your children, or their condition.

Right, well, thanks for that recommendation.

You said in post #3 "If it's a genuine disorder" & "the real figures for ADHD (if indeed there is such a thing)". Nothing about whether its psychological or sociological, in fact you never mention those 2 words until after someone else did (me I believe, referring to other psychological problems) in post 48. You were inferring that you don't think the condition exists.


Errrrr, what "certain form" of ADHD would that be?


Sorry, but . A bit like saying that I have a headache, but it may not be caused by the fact that I have a head it may be caused by the fact that I have blood.


How do you now that it's massively overdiagnosed or that medication is massively overprescribed? Yesterday you didnt even know the figures for how many kids are thought to have ADHD . Do you know how many of the kids diagnosed with the problem actually are on medication?

I'm not denying that there is misdiagnosis, but you seem to use a fact (blown up to epidemic proportions) to start badmouthing parents & telling people what you think is wrong with the world today. (see your first post)



May I suggest again that you read up on ADHD & look at the DSM-IV while you are there for the "specific traits" & the way it's diagnosed & assessed. I think the more you read, the more you will find that in most cases (within given parameters) it doesnt vary as much as you seem to think it does. BTW not every person with any sort of disease or disorder has every symptom attributed to that condition - exactly like ADHD.



Wow, how lucky for them. I doubt that most parents with ADHD kids would describe them as "a delight to be with". Stimulating, annoying at times, frustrating, innovative, argumentative but most of all never boring would probably be closer to the mark for alot of parents of ADHD kids.

OK, so now Im confused. One minute its sociological, the next it's neurological, or is it psychological? If you read about it, ADHD is discussed as both a psychological & neurological problem (because of the frontal lobe problems). So I don't really know to be honest (Im not a doctor). But I do know its not sociological & if you became more knowledgable about it you would know that too. If it were sociological, it would affect certain a profile of people & it doesnt.

Interestingly ADHD (along with dyspraxia) is often seen as closely linked to the autism spectrum.


Im not going to hash them up again, but having just re-read your comments on this thread, Im sorry, but I have to disagree!!

Because its people with attitudes like yours that make my life & the lives of my kids very difficult. You only have to read alot of the comments on this thread "It's all the parents fault" "If people didnt give the kids what they wanted they wouldn't have a problem" as well as the "Someone said there may be something wrong with my child, but I fixed the problem & showed them what-for" to realise that if someone does have ADHD they arent going to get much sympathy from the general public. My kids have to grow up with a stigma attached - not only that they have ADHD which, as a condition is bad enough, but aso that maybe they are just "bad" or badly parented or spoilt or selfish etc etc.

To be honest some of the comments on this thread if taken as the view of the general public are just so demoralising that it depresses me. People with medical problems (whatever their source or reason) should be shown compassion & support by others, not demonised & verbally run down for their problems.

My sister was classed as a "naughty child" and spent most of her junior school time doing her schoolwork in the headmistress's office. She was frequently spanked and the ruler across the palm of the hand was so frequent she became so blase about it she'd just hold her hand out as she walked into the room. She improved as soon as she started Senior school leaving with 9 O levels and was top of the class throughout most of her senior school days. Looking back now she really needed help not punishment.
My own daughter and to a lesser degree my son both have had alarming reactions to certain food additives. Amy still at age 20 can get a bigger high from a packet of skittles than she can from a 6 pack of rum and indeed she used to take a pack out on a night out and save herself a fortune in alcohol. Josh used to go bright orange after eating those cheesy whotsits things very scary first time it happened.
While parents are a lot more informed about food additives nowadays the additives themselves are not the sole cause of a lot of these problems. It's good news if your child improves after a change in diet but that doesn't make parents of the ones that don't bad parents, their children may well need the medication that the doc's prescribe.

That just reminded me of the first (and only time) I allowed my girls to try Sunny Delight - OMG can't remember which one, but one of them within five minutes looked as though she had mumps and measles put together. The rest of the bottle got tipped down the sink. As for Smarties - first born practically sat on the ceiling for a few hours after eating one of those diddy treat size boxes. Her reaction scared the living daylights out of me.

yeah the obvious reactions are easy to see, its the non obvious ones that are harder. my son was on an 'elimination' diet for some time (including eliminating natural chemicals which are in some fruit and veg). it took 3 weeks to see a change in him, thats how long it took for the additives/chemicals to get out of his system. after this he was completely different, what I would call a 'normal' child. it was then time to do 'challenges' i.e. introduce overdoses of certain 'chemicals' to find out which ones set him off. the first test we done was with the natural chemical salicylates, which incidently is in most fruit and veg. I gave my son a whole plate of mixed fruit which was loaded with salicylates, the next day he was a complete looney. He was happy though and just bouncing off the walls which was controllable and I didn't mind this at all. we stopped the fruit and had him back on complete 'elimination' again and again he went back to being 'nice'. We then introduced Amines which again is in some fruits and certain things like chocolate. for a few days there was no change, then after this he started to get very irritable and moody, the change was very noticable and gradual. completely different to the other test, he became progressively more agressive and very moody over a period of time. we stopped the 'Amines' and within a week he was back to normal. I thought these tests were amazing and it really opened my eyes to the affect of even healthy foods, and unfortunately (according to Sue Dengates elimination diet book) if your child is sensitive to Salicylates and Amines then they will be mostly sensitive to most other 'chemicals'. Over the years though I have found a happy medium where I know what foods set him off the most and can tell when things are 'building up' in his system and I just go back to basics to set him right again. unfortunately fruit seems to have a really bad effect on him over time, and sods law would say that he absolutely loves fruit!! I have to restrict his intake of certain fruits (oranges and strawberries are the worse) which is a shame as he would live off it if he had the choice!! the obvious things like sweets (even the 'natural' kind) really are bad for him, but everyday things like bread (preservatives are bad), cheese (loaded with amines), ham (nitrates are bad for him), margerine (most have colour and preservatives and antioxidants). So I have to be extra careful when shopping and I am one of those people that stand there staring at the labels!! and I must add that I am finding it increasingly difficult to find everyday things without any sort of chemical in it. I'm glad I found my sons 'problem' though and feel for those parents who are struggling to find their answer. Being a parent is tough, nobody prepares you for when things go wrong and I have often felt completely isolated, no one else seems to have a boy like mine. I know for one thing that my sons behaviour has nothing to do with my parenting, I have a daughter who is just one year older and have treated them both the same and she is the complete opposite to him. She has no food intolerances and has no 'behaviour issues' at all.

Sorry but ADHD was around in the 70's and prior to that. Just because it was not widely diagnosed does not mean it did not exist, same as aspergers etc.
They have been around since the dawn of man kind, but in the good old days they used to lock em up and drill holes in their head etc to cure them.

Should know as I work with children with various learning difficulties so I knows my stuff.

I do agree that ADHD does exist but there does seem to be a trend developing that a kid that is being naughty is said to have ADHD when it has not been properly diagnosed and could possibly a kid misbehaving (possibly due to upbringing, social circumstances or just a cry for attention). In a similar way if a child is struggling in lessons they are sometimes automatically labelled as dyslexic but they may be just struggling - perhaps we are all dyslexic but some more so than others!

Other kids seem to have to fight to get a proper diagnosis of ADHD before it is accepted by society (schools, doctors etc).