HBG

The last one I saw, earlier today, had received a tax bill for several thousand Euros. The letter was six pages long and was way beyond my limited comprehension of Spanish tax law.

I could do nothing but refer them to a Spanish tax lawyer. The best ones I know are based in Denia, but they are hellishly expensive.

I can't comment further on an individual case apart from saying that the couple concerned are as honest as the day is long.

Fred James

As I said before, until you have declared your income tax for 2012 I cannot see how Hacienda can ask for any tax as a result of the asset declaration as you always have the opportunity to correct previous years declarations as part of the current declaration.

HBG

I know your stance on this convoluted topic, Fred, but what more can I say?

I telephoned our contacts in Murcia, Almeria and Andalucia and none of them had any knowledge of similar tax demands from Hacienda. It appears they are starting off in Valencia, where most of the expats live.

As I said, these demands appear to be based purely on British bank account details over previous years, possibly an easy target when it's computer based.

I don't know where this is going, I don't know of anybody who does; the supervisor lady at Hacienda in Alicante put the phone down on me earlier today, she lives just down the street from me and has never done that before.

Lenox

The ex-pats, as the Spanish authorities know, are easy targets. We have no representatives, spokespeople, organisation or protection.

Fred James

It's impossible to comment without seeing the actual letter.

Of course it is possible that it has nothing to do with the asset declaration and refers to something entirely different, for example a demand for extra transfer tax as a result of them questioning the value of a house they bought (which is happening a lot at the moment).

As for these other letters, as I said before, until the end of the month, they are not in a position to issue tax demands for last year. I suppose they could involve previous years unpaid tax.

It would be interesting if someone could give an example of the actual contents.

sunnysmiley

I have spoken to my UK Bank who stress that there is no way
Hiacenda could go into anyone's account and take money even
if they have the details of the accounts in question unless the
account holder had notified them to comply with the request.

If however it was proved that there were outstanding tax arrears
then with a court order the Bank would freeze the amount to give
the account holder time to take whatever steps they could to defend
the action. Also the Bank will not under any circumstances give any
information out without the permission of the account holder.
(Data protection Act)

HMRC would comply if tax evasion was proved but it would only be
information given of what accounts were held. The person I spoke to
laughed and asked me "if it was so easy to rake in their outstanding
billions owed did I not think they would be doing it"?

This is what I have been told so I am just passing it on and hoping for
those who are worried that it is so.

jackytoo

Agree. have said it before on here when some have implied that information exchange means the Spanish authorities can just get into your UK records.

Seems like a lot of scaremongering to me, does anyone seriously think the tax offices will have got around to studying those 720's yet

dypcdiver

What worries me is that all the form filling was on-line and will have gone straight into a database, that can be searched in milliseconds, not like thumbing through a bunch of paper forms.
Just look at how long it takes Google to search millions of records.

scampicat

Oh. I'm so glad we got out when we did. The worst that has happened to us is an overdue bill from Movistar.

Whilst we enjoyed our time in Spain and loved our house and village, there is NO WAY we would ever a) become resident or b) buy a house, in Spain ever again.

I'm sure a lot of intending expats will change their minds and not come to Spain, especially if they want to keep a property and bank accounts in the UK. You don't come for all that hassle, so they won't come.

bobd22

Totally agree with your comment and we have not managed to even realise our dream of living full time in Spain yet and looks less and less like we will but do use our property for long stays but not what we had planned. Certainly the intrusion into our personal situation by still owning a small property in the UK which was planned for the just in case scenario and having a single daughter at home. I understand the need to ensure Spain gets it's fair tax from it's rich citizens rightly so. Of course we may become residents but never citizens but are treated as though we are.

The sad thing for us is that part of our plan was to sell our UK house on my retirement and drastically downsize:
a. free up some capital
b. small modern house easier to rent.

In doing so and re this declaration, non resident tax on UK property and who knows what next, we have shot ourselves in the foot. Our old house was a beautiful 17th century cottage bought 20 years ago in lovely countryside for 50k when bought needed a lot of work which we did. Downsized one small modern box on an estate cost 120k.So as far as this silly asset thing worth more which is plain silly but any non resident tax etc of course goes on price paid how silly can it get.

Had I had a glint of what was to come 6 years ago I would have kept our lovely cottage had plenty of lovely long holidays in various parts of the world, still been financially better off and you know what Spain would have been that bit worse off as they wouldn't have had the taxes etc I have paid on our house there.

Fred James

The imputed rental tax on that UK property, if you became tax resident in Spain is £163 per annum. Hardly a reason to change your dreams!

bobd22

More an annoyance Fred as I have paid everything required in my working life both UKand Spain.To be perfectly honest I do resent paying even £163 to Spain for an house in UK that in reality has absolutely nothing to do with them.As you your yourself are aware this tax only became knowledge following the declaration. There are of course other concerns and annoyances that I have.

Also of course the point I was trying to make is had I known I could have kept my far better house which is now worth over 4 x what I paid for it and paid far less of this tax, oh for foresight instead of hindsight.

bobd22

One other point that makes a nonsense of this is I believe it is "imputed rental" well even if I did rent it the tax wouldn't go to Spain it would go to the UK so I find it a cheek that Spain get it in this way even if it was only £1.

Fred James

No, rent from UK properties owned by a Spanish tax resident is also taxed in Spain as well as in the UK.

However the tax paid in the UK can be deducted from any Spanish tax due.

It is perfectly fair as it works the other way round. A Spaniard living in the UK will pay UK tax on renting his property in Spain and can deduct it from the tax he will pay in Spain as the property is in Spain.

jamiest

How long before our British accountants catch up with that though?