[DeadVim]

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 Not allowed to say that. Serious note, well done on keeping this up and making, hopefully, permanent changes. Maybe I should take a look. I like to think I have a pretty good diet but I guess most people think that.

I thought I did too but until I logged everything I consumed (and I mean everything, the MyFitnessPal thing doesn't make it a chore) and read up on metabolism I now know different.

My latest change has been to cut wheat and I feel so much better for it.

I think everyone has a carb tolerance that differs according to how they have been hitting their system over the years. The key is to find that and adjust accordingly.

There is no such thing as an 'essential carbohydrate' for a reason ...

Keep the insulin low, learn what 'hungry' really is and fuel accordingly.

People aren't fat because they eat too much, they eat too much because they are fat ... They are malnourished on a cellular level.

Don't fear the fat, the whole 'low fat' mantra has made us, collectively, sick.

Eating fat will not make you fat or harm your heart, eggs are probably the most perfect food you can consume. Pastured (not grain fed) chooks preferably.

The food pyramid is based on Bad Science and it will be overturned.

<Weird ranting ends >

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by DeadVim Just finished The Glycemic Load Diet, been through Wheat Belly, Original Atkins and the Pollan/Planck stuff. Also watched Food Inc, Food Matters and other 'just eat Real Food' themed docos. I don't like prescribed diets so I prefer to take the bits that make sense from the collective wisdom. Dropped about 6kg so far, no deprivation, no snacking and an irritating dry skin issue has vanished ... If this is bad for me then it will take some convincing ... Executive summary : Cut sugar in all forms, cut carbs, eat real food, don't fear fat consumption, love eggs and seafood, tame blood sugar and reduce insulin. I feel great, more in balance, I don't snack or crave anything, I still drink wine excessively (hey, everyone needs a vice!) AND I'm dropping weight. It's taken me 40 years to learn this? Shesh!

Good for you! I think I'm going to hop on the wagon and seriously re-evaluate as well. Now, I don't think my diet is awful (I knew a lot of this stuff already...about the refined carbs, vegetable oils, excess sugar etc.) but I've noticed since I hit a birthday with a 0 on the end of it that it seems more of a struggle to stop gaining weight just eating my regular diet (and I've always had some to lose to begin with). I do see what Taubes and Sisson mean about cutting calories and excess exercise though...about five years ago I was in training for six months for one of those charity 60km walks (and yes, I did walk the whole thing, woo hoo). But for a while there, I was walking on average 10km a day, a couple of 15-20km walks on weekends, and after losing 10kg, my weight just plateaued. You'd think someone logging 50-70km a week walking would have no problem losing weight, especially since I was already eating roughly 1800 calories a day, but no further weight loss...I know why. I was over-exercising (also affecting my adrenals) and compensating with a higher percentage of carbs (the old, "go ahead eat a bagel, eat a banana, you'll burn it off"). It's a good thing my main goal then was fitness or else I'd be miserable wondering why the heck the lower calorie diet and super exercising wasn't working.

I bought the Primal Blueprint as well. Now, I've been wary of those paleo types. It seemed way too restrictive, but now at first glance, it might be reasonable. Grass fed meats, seafood, veg, some fruit, healthy oils, nuts, even full fat dairy in moderation (I thought dairy was off, so that makes me happy), and dark chocolate and red wine allowed. However, I imagine eliminating grains would be the toughest for me...I could see myself more as a limited grain paleo...ha ha. Anyway, it seems to fit with Taubes perspective as well. It's written by the guy who does the Mark's Daily Apple site. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

I'm also reading Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food. I like it so far...nothing surprising for me yet, but I'd recommend it as a good read for people new to the trad foods idea and written in an accessible style.

How was Wheat Belly?

Too bad we didn't live closer, we could set up a lending library. Ha.

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by DeadVim I thought I did too but until I logged everything I consumed (and I mean everything, the MyFitnessPal thing doesn't make it a chore) and read up on metabolism I now know different. My latest change has been to cut wheat and I feel so much better for it. I think everyone has a carb tolerance that differs according to how they have been hitting their system over the years. The key is to find that and adjust accordingly. There is no such thing as an 'essential carbohydrate' for a reason ... Keep the insulin low, learn what 'hungry' really is and fuel accordingly. People aren't fat because they eat too much, they eat too much because they are fat ... They are malnourished on a cellular level. Don't fear the fat, the whole 'low fat' mantra has made us, collectively, sick. Eating fat will not make you fat or harm your heart, eggs are probably the most perfect food you can consume. Pastured (not grain fed) chooks preferably. The food pyramid is based on Bad Science and it will be overturned. <Weird ranting ends >

Amen. Seriously...proud of ya...

Taubes should be the first stop for anyone who wants the answers why (oh why) our collective food knowledge is so messed up and how brainwashed many of us are. Seriously, you tell a dietician that you want to regain your health by eating (grass fed) steak, butter, and coconut oil and ditching the wholegrain bread and brown rice and they'll look at you like you need locking up. Sigh.

[DeadVim]

Originally Posted by Japonica Amen. Seriously...proud of ya... Taubes should be the first stop for anyone who wants the answers why (oh why) our collective food knowledge is so messed up and how brainwashed many of us are. Seriously, you tell a dietician that you want to regain your health by eating (grass fed) steak, butter, and coconut oil and ditching the wholegrain bread and brown rice and they'll look at you like you need locking up. Sigh.

I'll reply to your earlier post later (my tablet thingy makes it awkward for long replies) but I will mention that I am having problems convincing my 'healthy' OH to ditch the grains and that I am a recent coconut oil devotee ... I think this is a large part of the reason my dry skin issue has cleared.

Tried all the usual creams/shampoos but this has helped a lot better and quicker.

It's just a matter of time before we wake up, collectively.

I started a separate thread on aspartame and actually feel guilty for letting my daughter consume it, even in small quantities.

[DeadVim]

Originally Posted by Japonica Good for you! I think I'm going to hop on the wagon and seriously re-evaluate as well. Now, I don't think my diet is awful (I knew a lot of this stuff already...about the refined carbs, vegetable oils, excess sugar etc.) but I've noticed since I hit a birthday with a 0 on the end of it that it seems more of a struggle to stop gaining weight just eating my regular diet (and I've always had some to lose to begin with). I do see what Taubes and Sisson mean about cutting calories and excess exercise though...about five years ago I was in training for six months for one of those charity 60km walks (and yes, I did walk the whole thing, woo hoo). But for a while there, I was walking on average 10km a day, a couple of 15-20km walks on weekends, and after losing 10kg, my weight just plateaued. You'd think someone logging 50-70km a week walking would have no problem losing weight, especially since I was already eating roughly 1800 calories a day, but no further weight loss...I know why. I was over-exercising (also affecting my adrenals) and compensating with a higher percentage of carbs (the old, "go ahead eat a bagel, eat a banana, you'll burn it off"). It's a good thing my main goal then was fitness or else I'd be miserable wondering why the heck the lower calorie diet and super exercising wasn't working. I bought the Primal Blueprint as well. Now, I've been wary of those paleo types. It seemed way too restrictive, but now at first glance, it might be reasonable. Grass fed meats, seafood, veg, some fruit, healthy oils, nuts, even full fat dairy in moderation (I thought dairy was off, so that makes me happy), and dark chocolate and red wine allowed. However, I imagine eliminating grains would be the toughest for me...I could see myself more as a limited grain paleo...ha ha. Anyway, it seems to fit with Taubes perspective as well. It's written by the guy who does the Mark's Daily Apple site. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ I'm also reading Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food. I like it so far...nothing surprising for me yet, but I'd recommend it as a good read for people new to the trad foods idea and written in an accessible style. How was Wheat Belly? Too bad we didn't live closer, we could set up a lending library. Ha.

Yeh, the whole calories in/out, you will lose xxx kg by creating a deficit is a crock really. I was reading about people who train for long distance walking and are still carrying extra weight too. It's a vast over-simplification of what is going on.

Exercise is great for many things but for weight control I believe nutrition is more important. Makes sense really to focus on the fuel first.

I actually exercise less than I used to and don't worry if I haven't put the trainers on for a couple of days. I enjoy walking but don't fret that I haven't 'burnt off' breakfast. (usually scrambled eggs, bacon, butter, cayenne pepper ... mmmm).

I'll check out The Primal Blueprint, always good to have other perspectives on things.

Wheat Belly was an eye-opener, as usual with these things it's heavily biased on the 'this is bad' angle but if even half of it is true then cutting grains has to be a good move if you really want to shift some lard.

It's certainly helped me, been more or less low carb and wheat free for a couple of weeks now and I find my sensitivity to sweetness has returned and I appreciate food more.

My collection is digital and I couldn't possible infringe copyright

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by DeadVim I'll reply to your earlier post later (my tablet thingy makes it awkward for long replies) but I will mention that I am having problems convincing my 'healthy' OH to ditch the grains and that I am a recent coconut oil devotee ... I think this is a large part of the reason my dry skin issue has cleared. Tried all the usual creams/shampoos but this has helped a lot better and quicker. It's just a matter of time before we wake up, collectively. I started a separate thread on aspartame and actually feel guilty for letting my daughter consume it, even in small quantities.

I've also read (and tried firsthand) coconut oil topically for really problem skin areas. Someone I know uses it for eczema. We have a tub of the stuff in the pantry and one in the bathroom instead of the lotions etc. on the market that don't seem to do much. We obviously also use it for cooking...stir-fries and the like.

Yeah, the aspartame...not so great. Don't beat yourself up about it, you know the story on it now.

[carolinephillips]

After 9 weeks on a gluten free diet my weight seems to have stabilised, I don't have IBS symptoms any more and oh, the relief of being able to go out without planning my trips around toilets!!

Got to work on my sugar intake though. I still crave sweet stuff, and I've discovered how to make devastatingly tasty brownies. Maybe that's why I'm stuck at 55kgs!!!!!

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by DeadVim Yeh, the whole calories in/out, you will lose xxx kg by creating a deficit is a crock really. I was reading about people who train for long distance walking and are still carrying extra weight too. It's a vast over-simplification of what is going on. Exercise is great for many things but for weight control I believe nutrition is more important. Makes sense really to focus on the fuel first. I actually exercise less than I used to and don't worry if I haven't put the trainers on for a couple of days. I enjoy walking but don't fret that I haven't 'burnt off' breakfast. (usually scrambled eggs, bacon, butter, cayenne pepper ... mmmm). I'll check out The Primal Blueprint, always good to have other perspectives on things. Wheat Belly was an eye-opener, as usual with these things it's heavily biased on the 'this is bad' angle but if even half of it is true then cutting grains has to be a good move if you really want to shift some lard. It's certainly helped me, been more or less low carb and wheat free for a couple of weeks now and I find my sensitivity to sweetness has returned and I appreciate food more. My collection is digital and I couldn't possible infringe copyright

Yeah, there's been a whole debate online for quite a while now between the trad foodies and the paleos about the role of grains in the diet. Now trad foodies argue that properly prepared (soaked, sprouted) limited grains in the diet should not be an issue...that many traditional peoples did consume grains and did not suffer ill health from it (according to Weston Price). Paleos argue that all grains are undesirable, not only due to the insulin response and carb content, but masked intolerance and the like.

Personally, I'm not sure where on the spectrum I am. From my medical anthropology courses, I do know what the result was when formerly nomadic hunter-gatherer types took up agriculture. Their skeletons showed evidence of disease, anemia, and as a people, they lost height over time. Hmm. And we know that excessive grain consumption interferes with mineral absorption. I tried explaining this to my sister-in-law when she complained of leg cramps--magnesium deficiency--while eating her 5th slice of wholemeal bread for the day and her pasta dinner.

Oh that reminds me, do read Weston A. Price if you get a chance. I can't believe I didn't recommend it yet. Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. It's the foundational book for all trad foodies. Anyway, Price, a dentist, roamed all over the world in the 30s, documenting people who had the best dental arches and overall health. He found that the peoples who had the most nutrient-dense, richest, traditional diets were the structurally healthiest people around. He also photographed others from that population eating the standard western diet (white flour, white sugar, veg shortening) and putting the photos side by side, well, the difference is obvious. The ones with the modern diets were basically in a state of malnutrition...narrow dental arches, lost teeth, stunted growth, bone deformities. The thing is too, the traditional diets were different from people to people. The Masai were eating different foodstuffs from the Aboriginals to the Maori to the northern Native Canadians. He also included a couple of European populations who were still living off the land in the manner of their ancestors and their health was remarkable compared to their neighbors who had adopted a modern diet.

In the same vein, Pottenger's Cats discusses the multigenerational impact of bad diets and how it affects our DNA and our offspring.

Maybe I should look into e-books. I lent my copy of Price's book out to a friend a year ago and I still have to get it back from her...

[iamthecreaturefromuranus]

Originally Posted by Japonica <snip> The ones with the modern diets were basically in a state of malnutrition...narrow dental arches, lost teeth, stunted growth, bone deformities. <snip>

What a complete crock.

[DeadVim]

Originally Posted by Japonica Yeah, there's been a whole debate online for quite a while now between the trad foodies and the paleos about the role of grains in the diet. Now trad foodies argue that properly prepared (soaked, sprouted) limited grains in the diet should not be an issue...that many traditional peoples did consume grains and did not suffer ill health from it (according to Weston Price). Paleos argue that all grains are undesirable, not only due to the insulin response and carb content, but masked intolerance and the like. Personally, I'm not sure where on the spectrum I am. From my medical anthropology courses, I do know what the result was when formerly nomadic hunter-gatherer types took up agriculture. Their skeletons showed evidence of disease, anemia, and as a people, they lost height over time. Hmm. And we know that excessive grain consumption interferes with mineral absorption. I tried explaining this to my sister-in-law when she complained of leg cramps--magnesium deficiency--while eating her 5th slice of wholemeal bread for the day and her pasta dinner. Oh that reminds me, do read Weston A. Price if you get a chance. I can't believe I didn't recommend it yet. Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. It's the foundational book for all trad foodies. Anyway, Price, a dentist, roamed all over the world in the 30s, documenting people who had the best dental arches and overall health. He found that the peoples who had the most nutrient-dense, richest, traditional diets were the structurally healthiest people around. He also photographed others from that population eating the standard western diet (white flour, white sugar, veg shortening) and putting the photos side by side, well, the difference is obvious. The ones with the modern diets were basically in a state of malnutrition...narrow dental arches, lost teeth, stunted growth, bone deformities. The thing is too, the traditional diets were different from people to people. The Masai were eating different foodstuffs from the Aboriginals to the Maori to the northern Native Canadians. He also included a couple of European populations who were still living off the land in the manner of their ancestors and their health was remarkable compared to their neighbors who had adopted a modern diet. In the same vein, Pottenger's Cats discusses the multigenerational impact of bad diets and how it affects our DNA and our offspring. Maybe I should look into e-books. I lent my copy of Price's book out to a friend a year ago and I still have to get it back from her...

Interesting, I keep reading about the Weston A. Price but haven't got around to the book, I'll stick it on the list.

Makes sense to eat what we've been eating for the vast majority of human history, no surprise the rise in diseases and obesity has coincided with the explosion of agriculture and processed junk.

[iamthecreaturefromuranus]

Originally Posted by DeadVim Interesting, I keep reading about the Weston A. Price but haven't got around to the book, I'll stick it on the list. Makes sense to eat what we've been eating for the vast majority of human history, no surprise the rise in diseases and obesity has coincided with the explosion of agriculture and processed junk.

My Grandfather was 5' 6"
My Father was 5' 10"
I'm over 5' 11
My son is just under 6 2" and still growing.

How does that sit with a claim, from the 1930's, that a modern diet is, supposedly, going to turn us into Hobbits?

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus What a complete crock.

Oh, you've read it? Seen the photos? And Price staged them by what...knocking out peoples' teeth and breaking their jaws? Sure.

Whatever. I don't find it hard to believe that a diet comprised mainly of white flour, sugar, and crisco results in cavities and loss of teeth...especially in people living out in the wilds who would not be visiting a dentist with any frequency. But yeah, the big three, LOADS of micronutrients there for sure for a healthy life.

Like I said before, if white flour and sugar rings your bell and is your superfood for the ultimate healthy life, have at it. Bon Appetit.

If a fraction of Taubes' meticulous five years of research is true, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the philosophy as a crock. The cancer and dementia connection should be on everyone's radar. I presume getting older applies to most people.

[Japonica]

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus My Grandfather was 5' 6" My Father was 5' 10" I'm over 5' 11 My son is just under 6 2" and still growing. How does that sit with a claim, from the 1930's, that a modern diet is, supposedly, going to turn us into Hobbits?

Personal anecdotes versus published, reviewed case studies. Sorry, as I've been told elsewhere, that doesn't make for a compelling argument.

And BTW, the loss in stature I alluded to from the med anthro lit was during the switch from H&G to agriculture in certain North American tribes. Unless your grandfather was a complete hunter gatherer living in the ancestral woodlands over at least a thousand years ago, it's not applicable. Don't confuse the height loss a millennium ago to dental health of the 1930s. The stunted growth Price illustrates was width of the skull and width of the dental arch.

[macy]

Originally Posted by carolinephillips After 9 weeks on a gluten free diet my weight seems to have stabilised, I don't have IBS symptoms any more and oh, the relief of being able to go out without planning my trips around toilets!! Got to work on my sugar intake though. I still crave sweet stuff, and I've discovered how to make devastatingly tasty brownies. Maybe that's why I'm stuck at 55kgs!!!!!

Your 55kg, my 11 year old son who is well toned, not a ounce of fat on him is 52kg, you probably are fine just the way you are... honest...

I have been sugar free for over 2 months, the first 3 weeks were awful and there are still some days when I feel like eating a bar of chocolate HOWEVER the headaches and the pimples and feeling emotional all the time for the first 3 weeks are enough to not want me to go back to sugar, honestly it is such a hard additction to break and impossible to cut down on completely however I eat around 8grams a day now and have slowly lost 5kg over 2 months which doesn't sound that much but I haven't been hungry and that has made all the difference and I can eat bread again as long as it's low in sugar, I am thinking of getting a bread machine to not have to read all the bread labels, sourdough or rye is the bread with lots of butter and no guilt.

I was so sick of starving myself to death and never shifting anything, reading Sweet Poison made sense to me.

Do if feel any better for it? No... but I have no health issues , my skin isn't any better either but it was ok anyway. I do seem to have more energy and don't need as much sleep which can only be a good thing.

Internally I can only assume my body is brand spanking new again, without all the sticky blood travelling my system (yep sugar makes your blood stickier) which doesn't do any favours to the internal arteries.

I hate people to go on but if you are having health problems just borrow the book sweet poison and give it a read. Sugar really isn't the best thing for us.

[macy]

Originally Posted by carolinephillips After 9 weeks on a gluten free diet my weight seems to have stabilised, I don't have IBS symptoms any more and oh, the relief of being able to go out without planning my trips around toilets!! Got to work on my sugar intake though. I still crave sweet stuff, and I've discovered how to make devastatingly tasty brownies. Maybe that's why I'm stuck at 55kgs!!!!!

I meant to add, my friend is celiac and she had very thin hair, once diagnosed she noticed that even her shampoo and conditioner had wheat in them!!!! So she buys this special g/f stuff on line and her hair is so much thicker so you might want to give them a go if you are having thin hair problems as well, apparently it is quite common when you are celiac.