[golfy]

Apart from the fact that the majority of documents, papers & studies on Global warming have been proven to be fraudulent, the main evidence of 'Climate Change' are the Polar Ice Caps which are melting & supposedly causing Islands in the Maldives to disappear, well there's a serious flaw in this argument, the Polar Ice Caps are floating bodies of ice, so their melting will do nothing to make the level of the oceans rise as their displacement will actually lessen as a result of their melting, to test this put an ice cube into a full glass of water, as it melts the water level actually drops Not only that but as the Ice Pack decreases at the North pole it is actually increasing by a corresponding amount at the South Pole

We may be experiencing a climatic change, the Earth travels around the Sun in an elliptical pattern, a slight change in the trajectory will have a massive impact on temperatures on parts the planet, like for example the difference between summer & winter It's happened before, there were at least three periods spanning millions of years that Dinosaurs roamed the Earth, each period ended up in an Ice Age & Barney & his mates were wiped out, now I can't be exact on a timescale, but I'm pretty sure this was MILLIONS of years before Rudolph Diesel made his first killing machine. The path that the planet travels is not continually on the same plane, the Earth rotates & the forces that rotation cause will increase or decrease its distance from the Sun, as the North & South Poles show clearly. This happens on roughly a 60yr cycle. Quite a lot of our parents experienced the last 60yr cycle & our Great Grandparents experienced the one before that, now I don't remember my Mum or Dad telling me that there was catastrophic flooding, heat waves, swarms of Locusts etc around when they were kids & without even asking them I'm going to say that they never heard stories like that from their Grandparents either.

[jojojojojo]

Originally Posted by jimenato That's just not true although I suppose it might be all you hear about it...

Where does your superior information come from then??? Cos its all the same regurgitated stuff just with a different spin. Stop being naive and start looking at the bigger picture. Seriously, if there really was a serious problem, they'd abolish the building of cars/planes/tanks immediately, they'd stop China and India from building huge generating plants, and rather than tell us they have to put the price of fuel and electricity up to stop us using it (thats a clue to their plan!!!!), they'd simply stop us using so much by rationing it! They also wouldnt bother about the silly EU finance issues and concentrate on saving the planet - for real!!!!

Jo xxx

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by jimenato That's just not true although I suppose it might be all you hear about it... What opened my eyes to The Beast's (and not only his) ignorance on the subject was the OP. I am assuming that his final line (Global warming my arse!) was to indicate that he believed the weather phenomenon he had described gave the lie to Global Warming (why else would he have added it?). It is, however, completely irrelevant.

Bloody hell Jimenato, you sound like all the other keyboard warriors I have come across....You have to analyse every idiosyncratic comment that doesn’t gel with your opinion on the subject matter at hand.
A piece of doggerel ending with a familiar assertion that is commonplace with sceptics....Of course climate change is here, apparent and something is culpable, be it natural cycles or me with my garden bonfires....I couldn’t give a hoot!

If my throwaway line at the end of my OP has caused this debate, I can only apologize to those who are taking offense...

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo Where does your superior information come from then??? Cos its all the same regurgitated stuff just with a different spin. Stop being naive and start looking at the bigger picture. Seriously, if there really was a serious problem, they'd abolish the building of cars/planes/tanks immediately, they'd stop China and India from building huge generating plants, and rather than tell us they have to put the price of fuel and electricity up to stop us using it (thats a clue to their plan!!!!), they'd simply stop us using so much by rationing it! They also wouldnt bother about the silly EU finance issues and concentrate on saving the planet - for real!!!! Jo xxx

Rather succinctly put I believe...

[jimenato]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo Where does your superior information come from then??? Cos its all the same regurgitated stuff just with a different spin. Stop being naive and start looking at the bigger picture. Seriously, if there really was a serious problem, they'd abolish the building of cars/planes/tanks immediately, they'd stop China and India from building huge generating plants, and rather than tell us they have to put the price of fuel and electricity up to stop us using it (thats a clue to their plan!!!!), they'd simply stop us using so much by rationing it! They also wouldnt bother about the silly EU finance issues and concentrate on saving the planet - for real!!!! Jo xxx

Well certainly not from "sensationalised versions written by journalists" - is that really where you get your opinions from? I'm sure there's also a facebook group that would fit your ideas somewhere.

The reason that the things you suggest are not being done (and if - I STRESS IF - global warming through human activities is real then they sould be making those measures) is that it would be political suicide so they are not doing them.

You should stop being so gullible and swallowing the denial/conspiracy theory hook, line and sinker and study the science instead. It is only science that can tell us the truth about this - the actions of a few short-term politicians mean nothing.

I don't know whether global warming is happening or not but I would rather put my trust in the majority of scientists who say it is and not in a minority who say it isn't and a bunch of here today gone tomorrow politicians who have't got a clue about anything apart from the next elections. You trust them to give you the correct picture? You're calling me naive?

[jojojojojo]

Originally Posted by jimenato Well certainly not from "sensationalised versions written by journalists" - is that really where you get your opinions from? I'm sure there's also a facebook group that would fit your ideas somewhere. The reason that the things you suggest are not being done (and if - I STRESS IF - global warming through human activities is real then they sould be making those measures) is that it would be political suicide so they are not doing them. You should stop being so gullible and swallowing the denial/conspiracy theory hook, line and sinker and study the science instead. It is only science that can tell us the truth about this - the actions of a few short-term politicians mean nothing. I don't know whether global warming is happening or not but I would rather put my trust in the majority of scientists who say it is and not in a minority who say it isn't and a bunch of here today gone tomorrow politicians who have't got a clue about anything apart from the next elections. You trust them to give you the correct picture? You're calling me naive?

I cant be bothered to argue anymore. I dont believe the science, its not what I learnt either at school or uni, I dont believe those who bang on about it who obviously have a vested interest, I dont believe that they believe it either otherwise they'd do more. I look back at history and nothing is any different or new from the last 500 yrs+ (apart from a mini ice age that we're still coming out of) and in the end whether its warming, cooling or whatever, it wont happen in my life time, the world governments arent showing me that they care enough to do anything accept make money from it. So what ever theory we believe in, it aint important really is it!



Jo xxx

[jimenato]

Originally Posted by golfy Apart from the fact that the majority of documents, papers & studies on Global warming have been proven to be fraudulent, the main evidence of 'Climate Change' are the Polar Ice Caps which are melting & supposedly causing Islands in the Maldives to disappear, well there's a serious flaw in this argument, the Polar Ice Caps are floating bodies of ice, so their melting will do nothing to make the level of the oceans rise as their displacement will actually lessen as a result of their melting, to test this put an ice cube into a full glass of water, as it melts the water level actually drops Not only that but as the Ice Pack decreases at the North pole it is actually increasing by a corresponding amount at the South Pole

Well of course you didn't mean that the polar ice cap's' are floating - The continent of Antarctica contains 70% of the worlds fresh water in the form of ice and it's not floating. It is however declining - it's flowing towards the sea as glaciers and thus increasing the amount of sea ice.

Originally Posted by golfy We may be experiencing a climatic change, the Earth travels around the Sun in an elliptical pattern, a slight change in the trajectory will have a massive impact on temperatures on parts the planet, like for example the difference between summer & winter It's happened before, there were at least three periods spanning millions of years that Dinosaurs roamed the Earth, each period ended up in an Ice Age & Barney & his mates were wiped out, now I can't be exact on a timescale, but I'm pretty sure this was MILLIONS of years before Rudolph Diesel made his first killing machine. The path that the planet travels is not continually on the same plane, the Earth rotates & the forces that rotation cause will increase or decrease its distance from the Sun, as the North & South Poles show clearly. This happens on roughly a 60yr cycle. Quite a lot of our parents experienced the last 60yr cycle & our Great Grandparents experienced the one before that, now I don't remember my Mum or Dad telling me that there was catastrophic flooding, heat waves, swarms of Locusts etc around when they were kids & without even asking them I'm going to say that they never heard stories like that from their Grandparents either.

Yes - the average temperature of the planet changes on a regular basis due to quite natural phenomena but we aren't really talking about that. The global warming theory is that human activities aggravate those changes in ways no-one is sure about. The activities that are thought to contribute to global warming (particularly the burning of fossil fuels for power generation, transport and so on) have multiplied hugely in the last 150 years and are increasing all the time. This situation has not occurred before so our grandparents wouldn't have experienced it.

[jimenato]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo I cant be bothered to argue anymore. I dont believe the science, its not what I learnt either at school or uni, I dont believe those who bang on about it who obviously have a vested interest, I dont believe that they believe it either otherwise they'd do more. I look back at history and nothing is any different or new from the last 500 yrs+ (apart from a mini ice age that we're still coming out of) and in the end whether its warming, cooling or whatever, it wont happen in my life time, the world governments arent showing me that they care enough to do anything accept make money from it. So what ever theory we believe in, it aint important really is it! Jo xxx

Sorry jojo - but sometimes the things you say

I look back at history and nothing is any different or new from the last 500 yrs+

In that time world population has grown from 500 million to 7 billion and the power station, and engine have all been invented - and you don't think anything is new or different?

However there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well stop discussing it.

BTW I'm interested that you did a science at university - what did you take?

[jojojojojo]

Originally Posted by jimenato BTW I'm interested that you did a science at university - what did you take?

theres a lot you dont know about me lol!!! Suffice to say, you dont need to. There are those who play dumb and those who are dumb. I know which I am lol!!!

Jo xxx

[Lynn R]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo I dont believe that they believe it either otherwise they'd do more. I look back at history and nothing is any different or new from the last 500 yrs+ (apart from a mini ice age that we're still coming out of) and in the end whether its warming, cooling or whatever, it wont happen in my life time, the world governments arent showing me that they care enough to do anything accept make money from it. So what ever theory we believe in, it aint important really is it! Jo xxx

Otherwise they'd do more? Just look at what happened when the motorists of Britain thought there MIGHT (not would, just might) be a tanker drivers' strike. Any Government trying to take rationing measures to stop the public's insane reliance on car travel would be committing political suicide, and that's why they don't do it. Quite apart from global warming, they might eventually be forced into it in the West, though, if China and India continue to use up more and more of the fossil fuel resources of the world, and we are priced out of the market. And just who do you suppose would have the clout to stop those countries doing just that, they would laugh in our faces.

[golfy]

What Is the Problem with Carbon Dioxide (CO2)?

Carbon dioxide is not a toxin, is not directly harmful to human health, and is not projected to become so--even without legislative or regulatory action. CO2 is fundamental to all known forms of life. Indeed, studies show that increased CO2 levels are beneficial for crop production.

Nevertheless, driven by concern that increasing levels of CO2 (and other greenhouse gasses) will lead to a warmer world and cause environmental damage, there have been calls to significantly restrict emissions of all greenhouse gasses, but especially CO2. Among the proposals to reduce CO2 levels are carbon taxes and cap and trade.

Our analytical models are not suited to making projections beyond 2030. Nevertheless, the economic impacts of this cap-and-trade program in just the first two decades were extraordinary. The estimated aggregate losses to Gross Domestic Product (GDP), adjusted for inflation, are $4.8 trillion. By 2029 the job losses in the manufacturing sector will be nearly 3 million. This is over and above the nearly one million manufacturing job losses that most economists predict will occur even in the absence of global-warming legislation.

Some of the workers forced out of manufacturing will find employment in the service sector, but overall, the economy loses jobs. In some years, this overall job loss exceeds 800,000.

Note: Current law already has many provisions for curtailing CO2 emissions. They range from local renewable-portfolio mandates to increased nationwide Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards to subsidies for ethanol production. While the reductions in CO2 emissions are included for the purposes of meeting the emissions targets, the considerable cost of these programs is not included in our analysis. This is because the costs are attributable to existing legislation and will occur even without additional laws or regulations. Of course, if they were included, job and GDP loss totals would be even higher.

By the way if 1 large volcano erupts it'll pump out more CO2 than humans have EVER produced

[Abyss-Rover]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo theres a lot you dont know about me lol!!! Suffice to say, you dont need to. There are those who play dumb and those who are dumb. I know which I am lol!!! Jo xxx

Couldn't find a smiley to express my opinion, so I will simply say

There are those who think that they know everything and some even think that others give a sh*t about their opinion. Let's pray you never become a politician.

[Novocastrian]

Originally Posted by jojojojojo Nonsense, you listen to too much government and "those who will benefits" propaganda!! The earth and its inhabitants have been chucking out CO2 emissions of varying degrees since it started. Do you really think farting cattle and us leaving our standby buttons on is comparable to worldwide volcanoes, earth quakes, tutonic plate movements due to the earths core cooling, dinosaurs, methane from the oceans (which even to this day are responsible for 98% of all methane). If there is a problem at all, its that the greenery on the earth is being diminished - well must all remember from our school days that plantlife uses CO2 and turns it into oxygen??? However we are still destroying greenery and rain forests at an alarming rate - although that said, plants arent showing any signs fo growing bigger or quicker which also suggests that there isnt anymore CO2 in the atmosphere Jo xxx

That's likely the most ignorant post I've ever read on BE. (Although I don't ever inhabit the Spain forum or TIO).

[Novocastrian]

Originally Posted by golfy Apart from the fact that the majority of documents, papers & studies on Global warming have been proven to be fraudulent, the main evidence of 'Climate Change' are the Polar Ice Caps which are melting & supposedly causing Islands in the Maldives to disappear, well there's a serious flaw in this argument, the Polar Ice Caps are floating bodies of ice, so their melting will do nothing to make the level of the oceans rise as their displacement will actually lessen as a result of their melting, to test this put an ice cube into a full glass of water, as it melts the water level actually drops Not only that but as the Ice Pack decreases at the North pole it is actually increasing by a corresponding amount at the South Pole

Oh, dear god. You really think the polar ice caps float? Ever heard of Antarctica or Greenland? The majority of global warming studies are fraudulent? Please cite examples. Could you cite a plausible mechanism for the south ice pack increasing if the northern one melted?

We may be experiencing a climatic change, the Earth travels around the Sun in an elliptical pattern, a slight change in the trajectory will have a massive impact on temperatures on parts the planet, like for example the difference between summer & winter

Jesus. The difference from summer to winter is because the Earth is tilted 23 degrees from the elliptic. Moron.

It's happened before, there were at least three periods spanning millions of years that Dinosaurs roamed the Earth, each period ended up in an Ice Age & Barney & his mates were wiped out, now I can't be exact on a timescale, but I'm pretty sure this was MILLIONS of years before Rudolph Diesel made his first killing machine. The path that the planet travels is not continually on the same plane, the Earth rotates & the forces that rotation cause will increase or decrease its distance from the Sun, as the North & South Poles show clearly. This happens on roughly a 60yr cycle. Quite a lot of our parents experienced the last 60yr cycle & our Great Grandparents experienced the one before that, now I don't remember my Mum or Dad telling me that there was catastrophic flooding, heat waves, swarms of Locusts etc around when they were kids & without even asking them I'm going to say that they never heard stories like that from their Grandparents either.

Speechless. Do you have a nearby psychiatrist?

[Bigger Jim]

Originally Posted by jimenato My views on whether it is happening or not are based on simple scientific fact - junior school stuff which says it could happen (that's not in dispute) and by the vast majority of scientists who are in agreement that it appears to be happening - they know more about it than anyone else and we have little else to go on. ..

If only it was a simple scientific fact we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Hands up those who believed in the "Hockey stick curve". Whatever happened to that! It was the indisputable proof of Global warming. The believers very quietly dropped that didn't they!!

Jim