[robin1234]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready Far fewer criminals in Britain have access to firearms. It's highly unlikely that you'll get shot over there. Most British people don't want guns and there's really no need for them. I don't care for them myself and I care even less for the macho bullshit associated with them.

Very true, but there's really no need for them here either. It's a hobby like any other. Obviously the state needs firearms to coerce the populace and the foreigners.

[Ethelred_the_Unready]

Originally Posted by robin1234 Very true, but there's really no need for them here either. It's a hobby like any other. Obviously the state needs firearms to coerce the populace and the foreigners.

The notion of gun ownership here in the US is completely different though. I believe that owning a gun here is seen as a sort of political statement, or a system of checks and balances, ensuring that the Federal government doesn't get any funny ideas about really taking control, imposing awful things like free healthcare and free university education. In all seriousness, I disagree with one point of view on the subject of guns, but I respect both. The UK and USA are very culturally different; this is one example of such differences.

[SATX John]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready I believe New Hampshire has very relaxed gun laws.

http://www.lcav.org/states/newhampshire.asp

You are correct, and the dealers and shops are still required to follow the Federal Law which is required by all FFL dealers, not varying by state, ie a uniform standard for purchase, which is in place.

Relaxed is a misnomer since all dealers are required to adhere to some minimum federal standards, but I agree some states allow more types of ownership than less California va Texas.

According to the site I sourced, New Hamphshire are far more restrictive 25 of 50 states, than Maine 42 of 50. OBTW, us raging Texans rank 19 of 50 for guns laws according to the above source, making us more restrictive th.an both north eastern states

Bob sorry you are emotional about this but equating beer to gun sales is intellectually dishonest. Please reveiw the law for FFLs and their requirements.

BATF busted bad Agents and Buyers recently:

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...-in-texas.html

http://m.ice.gov/news/releases/1204/...lepass.htm?f=m

[SATX John]

Originally Posted by Ethelred_the_Unready The notion of gun ownership here in the US is completely different though. I believe that owning a gun here is seen as a sort of political statement, or a system of checks and balances, ensuring that the Federal government doesn't get any funny ideas about really taking control, imposing awful things like free healthcare and free university education. In all seriousness, I disagree with one point of view on the subject of guns, but I respect both. The UK and USA are very culturally different; this is one example of such differences.

I agree esp. on the cultural difference, if you do not grow up in the culture then it is alien and differnt. Our supreme court said it was an "Individual Right" just like free speech etc... It is now the Law of the Land, just like abortion, but lets not go there....

The political statement part not so much.

If you do not want a gun just dont buy one, just like if you do not like a TV station like Fox, change the channel, or want a hybrid vs an SUV. I oppose imposing one persons view of "right or correct" on everyone else, thats all.

[Ethelred_the_Unready]

Originally Posted by SATX John I agree esp. on the cultural difference, if you do not grow up in the culture then it is alien and differnt. Our supreme court said it was an "Individual Right" just like free speech etc... It is now the Law of the Land, just like abortion, but lets not go there.... The political statement part not so much. If you do not want a gun just dont buy one, just like if you do not like a TV station like Fox, change the channel, or want a hybrid vs an SUV. I oppose imposing one persons view of "right or correct" on everyone else, thats all.

Personally, it doesn't bother me either way. I've been shooting before. It didn't really do much for me aside from give me a headache rather than a sense of power and control, but each to their own.

I accept that you can never ban guns in the US; it wouldn't work and would achieve nothing. Aside from farmers and huntsmen, most British people don't even want guns, so the handgun ban wasn't exactly met with too much opposition.

If guns give people a sense of "security", more power to them. It's different in the UK because contrary to your earlier post, most criminals are not armed and most of the gun crime in the UK is gang related.

[Lion in Winter]

Originally Posted by robin1234 I've never understood this lack of trust in the government argument that leads some people to own firearms, get off the grid and stockpile supplies. It seems to me that if the government wants to clip their wings it can easilly do so, whatever defensive or offensive steps they have taken. (Ruby Ridge, Branch Davidians, etc.) I personally choose not to fight that battle, I defer to the coercive power of the state, pick my battles etc.

And who is ever actually going to march on Washington with those things? And if they did, what good would it do them? One pass from an F18 and that would be that.

[Boiler]

Originally Posted by coastieexpat I have been off the grid for years, primarily because my land is a good distance away from the nearest pole, and it would cost thousands to get connected. It's an eyeopening experience to have to create and store your own electricity, ( solar in my case ). Pump water from a well , ( the best water I have ever tasted BTW ). Chop, stack and burn your own firewood. Oh ! and I don't own a gun , nor am I am ancient hippie . Pretty trustworthy too

I am on a well, there are only two towns sic in the County that have a water system.

I probably have 30 ish cords to block and split, my Home Depot chainsaw has given up, its replacement Makita arrives tomorrow. (Dolmar but blue and cheaper.) The X 27 is getting hard work.

Picked this up yesterday, have to get it off the truck, I will have some help tomorrow.

[coastieexpat]

I want one ......

[robin1234]

Originally Posted by Boiler I am on a well, there are only two towns sic in the County that have a water system. I probably have 30 ish cords to block and split, my Home Depot chainsaw has given up, its replacement Makita arrives tomorrow. (Dolmar but blue and cheaper.) The X 27 is getting hard work. Picked this up yesterday, have to get it off the truck, I will have some help tomorrow. http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploa...g-Splitter.jpg

Yes that is a nice piece of equipment. Twenty years ago or so I used to split 18 or 20 cords of wood with an axe (also a wedge etc.) and I'm pretty sure that's why I have a herniated disc and associated issues. We still cut our own firewood on our land, but restrict ourselves to skinnier trees with a diameter of 10 inches or less so no splitting required. My wife loves her Stihl chainsaw..

[Bob]

Originally Posted by SATX John Then in your version every gun dealer in Maine is violating FEDERAL LAW. http://www.lcav.org/states/maine.asp Above is an anti gun link. In your version, you an walk into a gun shop buy an AK or AR, without a DL or ID, your words. Not correct for legal gun sales. vs the beer store example. Federal checks are still applied included background checks through the system. BOB: Please, review the law and regs before spouting your stuff. You are better than that. Your examples violate the Federal Law on sales, and I would avoid those folks with all effort, they are criminals, if they do what you say and if you associate with them, hmmm...

A gun dealer, in a shop, that's what you're talking about.

What I'm talking about is people selling personal weapons via newspapers etc.

The gun fairs are a case of some bloke, whether he owns a gun shop or not, selling a collection of guns from private collections.

That said, I can as well as any other criminal, look in the papers, go to that persons home and buy a gun from them, without as much as showing ID and that is easier than buying a bottle of beer.

Sure, the purchaser is meant to be resident of the state, not have a criminal record, etc, etc, etc...but the seller does not need to check for it.

So having strict "rules" on the buyer are some what moot.

The situation with the gun range not asking for ID is for rentals.

Anyway, I'm not out to buy a gun, I don't really care to own one, but I know plenty of people who do and have had fun with them.

It is a fact that it is easy to buy a gun in some states. Sure it might be illegal for the person buying it, but that's kind of what we're talking about here. If there was a standard level playing field, where every state had the same minimum requirements to buy and sell guns, it would not lead to this situation where it is easier for a criminal to buy a gun from a legit source than it is to steal one, because lets face it, it's not a great idea trying to steal a gun from someone armed and likely to shoot you.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by SATX John Bob sorry you are emotional about this but equating beer to gun sales is intellectually dishonest. Please reveiw the law for FFLs and their requirements. BATF busted bad Agents and Buyers recently: http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...-in-texas.html http://m.ice.gov/news/releases/1204/...lepass.htm?f=m

I'm not emotionally anything. I don't give a shit.

You're saying it is hard for people to buy guns, citing gun shops as the source.

I'm just telling you the way it is, that it is easy and that most people I know buy their guns privately, not going to gun shops, because there aren't many of them around.

I'm not pulling it out of my arse either, because it's from experience.

I was with my mate when he bought a gun for his grand father as a present, he saw the advert, person lived up the street, he turned up, paid cash, didn't show any ID...and then across the street wasn't allowed to buy beer from the grocery store as he left his wallet in the car but had shopped there regularly and well over 21.

His grand dad is awesome and probably has more guns than Ray btw and there's definitely a bit of a kick to blowing holes through breeze block bricks with a monster rifle, .50 cal? Whatever, it was a fun time.

[HarryTheSpider]

Originally Posted by robin1234 I've never understood this lack of trust in the government argument that leads some people to own firearms, get off the grid and stockpile supplies. It seems to me that if the government wants to clip their wings it can easilly do so, whatever defensive or offensive steps they have taken. (Ruby Ridge, Branch Davidians, etc.) I personally choose not to fight that battle, I defer to the coercive power of the state, pick my battles etc.

I will roll this little grenade into the discussion...

Lack of trust in government...
... an outcome from such high rates of home schooling?

[HarryTheSpider]

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter And who is ever actually going to march on Washington with those things? And if they did, what good would it do them? One pass from an F18 and that would be that.

Yeah.

It was a trifle easier back in 1814 when the British Army paid a visit.

Seriously, I struggle to see the logic behind the fear of Govt. other than it threatens the ability of some to be selfish, anti social, biggots of the lowest kind. I'd give them my patented head ripping, anal sack treatment...

I blame their bad choice of parents and home schooling.

On different tack, loving how the whole 'off the grid' theme went literal here... As in being about no connection to utilities, rather than it's originally intended direction (assumption)

[Boiler]

That seems a more modern thing.

I would put it down to being ablle to read

Originally Posted by HarryTheSpider I will roll this little grenade into the discussion... Lack of trust in government... ... an outcome from such high rates of home schooling?

[Uncle Ebenezer]

Originally Posted by Boiler That seems a more modern thing. I would put it down to being ablle to read

But not spell ...