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Land of opportunity...

Land of opportunity...

Old Jul 17th 2008, 11:05 am
  #1  
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Default Land of opportunity...

Some interesting findings about the Land of Opportunity in case anyone is interested - summarised in today's Independent:

"The United States of America is becoming less united by the day. A 30-year gap now exists in the average life expectancy between Mississippi, in the Deep South, and Connecticut, in prosperous New England. Huge disparities have also opened up in income, health and education depending on where people live in the US, according to a report published yesterday.

The American Human Development Index has applied to the US an aid agency approach to measuring well-being – more familiar to observers of the Third World – with shocking results. The US finds itself ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in survival of infants to age. Suicide and murder are among the top 15 causes of death and although the US is home to just 5 per cent of the global population it accounts for 24 per cent of the world's prisoners.

............

Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...cy-869736.html

Original report here:

http://www.measureofamerica.org/2008...port/factoids/
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Elvira
Some interesting findings about the Land of Opportunity in case anyone is interested - summarised in today's Independent:

"The United States of America is becoming less united by the day. A 30-year gap now exists in the average life expectancy between Mississippi, in the Deep South, and Connecticut, in prosperous New England. Huge disparities have also opened up in income, health and education depending on where people live in the US, according to a report published yesterday.

The American Human Development Index has applied to the US an aid agency approach to measuring well-being – more familiar to observers of the Third World – with shocking results. The US finds itself ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in survival of infants to age. Suicide and murder are among the top 15 causes of death and although the US is home to just 5 per cent of the global population it accounts for 24 per cent of the world's prisoners.

............

Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...cy-869736.html

Original report here:

http://www.measureofamerica.org/2008...port/factoids/
Then there's this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_YI3SQAJzE
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Elvira
Some interesting findings about the Land of Opportunity in case anyone is interested - summarised in today's Independent:

"The United States of America is becoming less united by the day. A 30-year gap now exists in the average life expectancy between Mississippi, in the Deep South, and Connecticut, in prosperous New England. Huge disparities have also opened up in income, health and education depending on where people live in the US, according to a report published yesterday.

The American Human Development Index has applied to the US an aid agency approach to measuring well-being – more familiar to observers of the Third World – with shocking results. The US finds itself ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in survival of infants to age. Suicide and murder are among the top 15 causes of death and although the US is home to just 5 per cent of the global population it accounts for 24 per cent of the world's prisoners.

............

Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...cy-869736.html

Original report here:

http://www.measureofamerica.org/2008...port/factoids/
BLAH BLAH BLAH, and the point is?
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Caligirl4ever
BLAH BLAH BLAH, and the point is?
That's a tad rude, isn't it?

As we've all moved to America to live then I think this kind of article will be of interest to many.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 3:45 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Caligirl4ever
BLAH BLAH BLAH, and the point is?
If you can't work out the point, you either have never lived in the US, or you really don't care about the country you live in.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 4:17 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by tonrob
That's a tad rude, isn't it?

As we've all moved to America to live then I think this kind of article will be of interest to many.
Personally, I agree with CaliGirl4Ever.
It seems that some folks on here all moved to America to constantly piss and moan about the place, the people, the culture and how miserable life is.
If it's such an awful place - go somewhere else FFS.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 4:21 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Awesome Welles
Personally, I agree with CaliGirl4Ever.
It seems that some folks on here all moved to America to constantly piss and moan about the place, the people, the culture and how miserable life is.
If it's such an awful place - go somewhere else FFS.
Personally, I don't see that in the original post at all. All I see is something that brings attention to an issue all of us who live in the US should be concerned about. If you're not concerned, then it would seem that you're the one who doesn't care too much about the country.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

As a native-born American, I find myself not really caring what this article says either. In every country, there will be large discrepancies between those with money, and those without -that's just a fact. Between those that can afford good healthcare and those that cannot. I grew up poor (lower middle class), but that did not stop me from seeing that a decent education was the way out of poverty, then finding a way to fund my own education and then get a fantastic job. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I suppose that makes me appear rather cold-hearted, but I say if you want to change your family tree, work your a$$ off. If we lived in a more socialist country, maybe that would make a difference in the healthcare by having universal health care, but I think sometimes socialism breeds a bit of 'the government will take care of me", instead you deciding to get what you want by working.

I'm glad that 24% is in jail, rather than our streets.

Last edited by Bluegrass Lass; Jul 17th 2008 at 4:29 pm.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 4:35 pm
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
As a native-born American, I find myself not really caring what this article says either. In every country, there will be large discrepancies between those with money, and those without -that's just a fact. Between those that can afford good healthcare and those that cannot. I grew up poor (lower middle class), but that did not stop me from seeing that a decent education was the way out of poverty, then finding a way to fund my own education and then get a fantastic job. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I suppose that makes me appear rather cold-hearted, but I say if you want to change your family tree, work your a$$ off. If we lived in a more socialist country, maybe that would make a difference in the healthcare by having universal health care, but I think sometimes socialism breeds a bit of 'the government will take care of me", instead you deciding to get what you want by working.

I'm glad that 24% is in jail, rather than our streets.
I'm sure the millions of Americans that work their ass off for something like 6,7,8 or 9 dollars an hour and get ****ed on by the glorious system would bloody love you!

Not everyone is blessed with an intellectual ability, does that mean they deserve to be left to rot? And have you ever considered the fact that the system creates the criminality, not the other way around??

You are right though, there are poverty gaps everywhere, America's is by far the worse though - hardly surprising is it.

Last edited by Tootsie Frickensprinkles; Jul 17th 2008 at 5:53 pm.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Complain...Complain....I thought you already left "the great Satan" and refound profound happiness back in the UK. A country is what you've made of it...I've been here 32 years. No place is perfect but I'd reather be here than some ****hole.

Originally Posted by Elvira
Some interesting findings about the Land of Opportunity in case anyone is interested - summarised in today's Independent:

"The United States of America is becoming less united by the day. A 30-year gap now exists in the average life expectancy between Mississippi, in the Deep South, and Connecticut, in prosperous New England. Huge disparities have also opened up in income, health and education depending on where people live in the US, according to a report published yesterday.

The American Human Development Index has applied to the US an aid agency approach to measuring well-being – more familiar to observers of the Third World – with shocking results. The US finds itself ranked 42nd in global life expectancy and 34th in survival of infants to age. Suicide and murder are among the top 15 causes of death and although the US is home to just 5 per cent of the global population it accounts for 24 per cent of the world's prisoners.

............

Despite the fact that the US spends roughly $5.2bn (£2.6bn) every day on health care, more per capita than any other nation in the world, Americans live shorter lives than citizens of every western European and Nordic country, bar Denmark."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...cy-869736.html

Original report here:

http://www.measureofamerica.org/2008...port/factoids/
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
I grew up poor (lower middle class), but that did not stop me from seeing that a decent education was the way out of poverty, then finding a way to fund my own education and then get a fantastic job. Where there's a will, there's a way.
I have a master's degree from one of the world's best business schools, earn more than most Americans (while maintaining low overhead) and am quite healthy. But none of that prevented my health insurance premium from increasing 60% since 2005, nor will it help me much if I get unlucky and need my insurance to the point that my carrier decides that dropping me and being sued is cheaper than taking care of me. (The joys of self-employment.)

A typical scenario for people such as yourself who end up on the wrong side of the healthcare system is this:

-You fall too ill to work
-Because you can't work, you lose your health coverage (COBRA only lasts for 18 months. You may not be able to afford the premiums, and no carrier will cover what are now "pre-existing conditions.")
-Meanwhile, with a serious condition, your insurer stalls, refuses expensive treatment and allows your condition to worsen
-Finally, you end up in bankruptcy, once you've either lost your insurance or else have discovered that it didn't cover all that much, after all

This "I got mine, Jack" attitude is simply appalling, and one of the reasons that I continue to think about emigrating. Indecency and selfishness have become acceptable and admirable traits in America.

The middle class s*its on the poor, even though most of them are two or three paychecks away from joining them. They want to feel rich because they have nice car leases and massive adjustable rate mortgages, when most of them are really serfs who are up to their eyeballs in debt, living lifestyles that are supportable only through excessive debt.

Ronald Reagan made this meanspiritedness acceptable, and I will never forgive him for it. He put us on the path of being a debtor nation with a bad attitude and a Pollyanna outlook, when we really need better healthcare, a higher savings rate and less consumption.
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by sunflwrgrl13
As a native-born American, I find myself not really caring what this article says either. In every country, there will be large discrepancies between those with money, and those without -that's just a fact. Between those that can afford good healthcare and those that cannot. I grew up poor (lower middle class), but that did not stop me from seeing that a decent education was the way out of poverty, then finding a way to fund my own education and then get a fantastic job. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I suppose that makes me appear rather cold-hearted, but I say if you want to change your family tree, work your a$$ off. If we lived in a more socialist country, maybe that would make a difference in the healthcare by having universal health care, but I think sometimes socialism breeds a bit of 'the government will take care of me", instead you deciding to get what you want by working.

I'm glad that 24% is in jail, rather than our streets.
If you're happy paying way over the odds for healthcare in a system designed to make company's money rather than helping sick people, then the saying "a fool and his money are soon parted" definitely applies to you. In a system where more is spent per person on healthcare than any other country, and not all of those people have access to healthcare, then surely you have to admit something is wrong with the system?

To reflect on what TF says, in order for a community (the US) to work efficiently you need people to work at all levels; therefore there will always be people who get screwed by the US system of healthcare. The really, really poor get help from Medicare (never remember if that's the right one), but those who do work and work hard for low wages, even middle income families, are the ones who really get screwed hard by the system.

Also, of those in jail, how many really need to be there? It's another case where the system is far from ideal, and with privatised prisons where is the incentive for them to try to rehabilitate when there's money to be made making sure they stay on the same track?
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

I'm not sure it's fair to go on about how much the US spends on healthcare *if* they include murders in the life expectancy results!
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Old Jul 17th 2008, 5:10 pm
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Default Re: Land of opportunity...

Originally Posted by Caligirl4ever
BLAH BLAH BLAH, and the point is?
Well done, you have become an excellent American.
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