garethwm

Well, NZ never had any native animals to start off with, as far as I am aware. Only birds. And because there were no animals or preditors, the birds are often flightless. They were always going to be in trouble once we Europeans arrived with rats, cats, dogs, stoats etc. And there was also the need for protein for Maori in pre European times, as there were no animals to feed on. If you dont see much wildlife in the bush, thats a good thing, because, apart from birds, it shouldnt be there.

Kotare

The Maori brought pigs (and I think dogs) and because of the lack of protein were pretty fierce with the birdlife (wildlife) eg moas.

Unless it becomes a problem eg rabbits, deer, possums and the ferret/stoat/weasel group don't see any inherent problem with imports (as someone mentioned many bird species) but many conservationists would disagree :-)

Peter

Woodlea

Ah at last a decent ding-dong! Good show Kotare and BB, I will take Kotares side on this one.
And for garethwm, the Maori brought the dogs and rats Captain Cook brought the pigs didnt he?

garethwm

I presume a Moa running around in the back garden would be nice

Kotare

Sorry - you were right ref pigs :-)
Moas - small, medium or large - if the giant moa still existed they would be farmed for meat (or tourism).

garethwm

They may have. You might be right. In any case they arent native and many of the NZ native birds were doomed from that point on.

bourbon-biscuit

Native wildlife was the term I used, which covers the bats, insects, skinks, fishes, etc., etc. ... there are currently over 2500 endangered species in NZ! It's not just the bush that is in trouble: our waterways are among the most polluted in the OECD (due to farming practices as well as manufacturing and water treatment/ disposal) and numerous species of fish and waterborne insects are gone or endangered.

I wouldn't describe NZ as a "green desert" but it is a relatively empty landscape compared with just over a century and half ago. Full of pests tho!

garethwm

That old myth again. To the contrary. The OECD rates our waterways as among the least polluted. From the 98 rivers in the OECD they surveyed in 2004, the Waitaki, Clutha and Waikato had very low levels of nitrates. In fact they rated 1st, 2nd and 4th respectively at 0.02mgN per litre. The Thames, for example had 6.6 mgN. Dont get me wrong, I think there is a lot of pollution in the waterways, but by OECD standards the waterways are positively pristine.

garethwm

Same applies to these other species as flightless birds, I believe. NZ was one of the few countries with no humans up until about 1400. When humans arrived, the whole eco system changed. A virtual overnight change that for other countries took millions of years. I dont think its surprising that species have become endangered as a result and not due to pollution either. Its mainly due to introduced pests and necessary hunting by pre European Maori, I think. It would be interesting to know how many of these species were endangered before humans arrived.

Kotare

All this hand wringing :-) The world is as it is now and it is still rapidly changing. We are not going to have a world of no growth, with no climate or wildlife change. We are not going back to subsistence farming or pre genetically modified plants or the earlier centuries wildlife patterns (would love to have moas).

All we can do is to try to decrease any gratuitous or unnecessary damage to wildlife or the general environment eg whale hunting, bush meat trade, poaching of endangered species.

Otherwise, wildlife will have to adapt (call it hyper fast evolution in action) with wildlife winners and losers.

LittleGreyCat

New to the site and catching up with old discussions.

Firstly, I read recently that the Canterbury plain was burned off by the Maori before the European settlers arrived and was generally scrubby grassland. It was recognised as good agricultural land and put into production by the Europeans.

On the bird front, went for a walk in the Shakespear Regional Park and it was just like England. Thrushes, blackbirds, sparrows......and skylarks everywhere. I think the move to kill off the predators has really benefited ground nesting birds such as the skylark and they are more abundant than in England. They also seem abundant in the new housing near Millwater.

On the NZ green credentials, for a supposedly green nation there is a disturbing love of general poisons. From spraying weed killer to control lawn edges, to masses of 1080 all over the bush.

Hazelnut

That's the one that really shocked me when I read about it. I think there are increasing moves to reduce or halt the use but it's going to take time as the sale and use is probably very profitable for the companies that make it and those that use the land for purposes that only the 2010 can make financially viable. All interested parties will have fingers in political pies.

Kotare

Agree it is not desirable, but now give us an alternative to control possums/rabbits and the immense damage they do (especially the first).
Peter

Kotare

My wife joined the local land use/conservation group. We are between two kiwi conservation areas and her first meeting was 95% taken up with control of mustalids, rats, possums through poisoning, trapping, shooting. The other 5% was dog control.

I notice UK conservation goups are cheering on the increasing spread of polecats and want to reintroduce wolves. Different world :-)

Hazelnut

What shocked me with the 1080 was the aerial spread. I've lived next to agricultural fields when they used to air spray insecticide onto crops and been sprayed myself in the garden of my house. It's not pleasant and killed my cat who was essential for mouse control I read stories of native and non target animals dying because of the method of dispersion and that, in my opinion, needs looking at.
MrH and I were looking at the trap we have and thinking it's going to be a weird one to transport. Well, it's like this Mr Immigration Person, we used to trap foxes and grey squirrels and we thought these would be useful for possums...