SultanOfSwing

I don't mind the carols. If I ignore the lyrics, the music is very nice. Since Christmas is a hodgepodge of different traditions anyway, the only real way to celebrate it properly is in a secular fashion.

Parnell

I believe faith is important to a person

I don't believe in any faith being greater or of higher value than any other.

Faith is linked to values and guiding rules


Surprising how much these are similar at a fundamental level

kimilseung

Faith is believing something because you want it to be so, nothing else.

Sally Redux

Possibly because they are common sense rules for living which don't actually require supernatural belief, eg probably safest if people don't kill eachother and covet eachother's wives.

Parnell

Really?

SultanOfSwing

It may well be. Doesn't mean that has to be important to anyone else though. I respect their right to seek and hold said faith, but it'll be a cold day at the equator before I will be kowtowed or coerced into respecting the content of whichever fairy tale they decided to wrap themselves in to protect themselves from the reality of existence.

He has a point. Faith is in essence the ignorance of evidence in order to justify an unjustifyable belief in the supernatural. Or in other words, a complete waste of time and energy.

Parnell

Your confusing religion for faith

religion is subset of faith

Shard

What kind of faith do you believe is important to a person ?

Parnell

I believe in faith being important to all

Faith being religion for some or others a sense of empowerment from understanding.

Mine is faith in humanity and that there is more good than evil in the world. Obviously a lot more detail than this level but its not on religion although I respect others who are devoted to their religion.

Shard

A sense of empowerment from understanding is a good thing, but it is not faith. Kimilseung provided a clear definition of faith. Your faith in "more good than evil" is simply a self delusion, although there is no harm in that. Most of us hold a similar delusion. However, the problem with your line of thinking is that you use a very simple a general faith (good pervades) to validate the intricate nonsense faiths held by the religious.

SultanOfSwing

There is no need for faith when one has evidence.

Charismatic

Nothing quite makes the case again religion quite as well as the actions of the religious: BBC News - Charlie Hebdo: Major manhunt for Paris gunmen

scrubbedexpat094

Absolutely.

TommyLuck

I didn't get married at church, my daughter isn't baptised and unless she arranges it herself never will be.

I am not a religious person, although I did thoroughly enjoy singing a few hymns at school, most of all "Shine Jesus Shine", which was a number you could really empty the lungs to!!

Anyway, despite not being religious I do enjoy discussing the virtues of religion with those who are (like I would speak about sport with mates) and I would never criticise someone for being religious.

I think it is important however that we differentiate religious people and people with religious faith, from religious extremists.

A case against religion should not be based on extremist activity.

Simply put, there will always be angry sections of society and for the time being and perhaps forever, religious extremism is the most news worthy.

If religion was not a thing, something else would be there to take its place.

Making a case against religion based on extremists is like making a case against the internet because of the relatively minute amount of people who use it for criminal activity.

It's not like we can simply do away with religion anyhow. The only obvious way to do that is make it illegal, thereby criminalising billions of previous law abiding people world-wide therefore making the idea purely academic.

Shard

Agree that extremism is only one aspect in the case against religion. However, dismissing it away (as you have done) on the basis that there will always be extremists is erroneous thinking. Religion makes for a fertile breeding ground of extremists, so the two are linked.