MrsFychan

so pee'd off with how they work holiday entitlements over here.

Practically the first year you are not entitled to any holiday, you are accuring holiday for the next year. MrF was initially on a 2year fixed term contract with holiday entitlement, so he used it. But after a year they made permanent which changes the criteria for holiday. He basically should of accrued holiday before using it, so going for a year before he is entitled to take any. Company allowed him to use the accrued days through the year which meant when his start date anniversary came around he was at no holiday entitlement as he had used it, so now has to start accruing it again before he can take it. This means every year we will have to work out when we can holiday as the company on allows you take holiday once he has been accrued and not make you work the first year without any.
what a pain

jmh

The statutory entitlement says that they are owed it on the anniversary of their start date but employers may, if they wish allow you paid leave before that. I worked on a payroll system which flagged leave taken before the anniversary but still allowed the employer to give it. They would probably only give leave that was earned but he could probably get some time off in that year if he asked. Depends a bit on the company and how flexible they are.

MrsFychan

they are flexible in the fact that he can take accrued days but no more but he will now always be on catch up.

jmh

Also, people starting a new job could negotiate time off without pay for an essential holiday which would be paid for using the cashed up leave from their previous employer. Some people accrue years of leave and end up with a big payout when they leave.

scrubbedexpat094

It's a rubbish system...

Snap Shot

Which means that leave is taken unpaid - ouch.

OK, it's paid on catch up but by then the holiday days taken will be long gone. It means budgeting for holiday to account for having to take it unpaid when the holiday time is required.

I couldn't take paid leave from a job I had here in NZ back in 2012 until the first six months was up. Just as well it was a not quite six month short term contract, really.

My supervisor at the time remarked it was an old fashioned way of doing it, but it's policy so the same for everyone.

So, I just had to, 'suck it up' going away for a week unpaid. Yes the accrued leave was paid to me when I left.

Snap Shot

What if you have neither 'cashed up leave' from a former employer or not even a former employer ?

A lot of employers, especially in Britain don't like that people deliberately wait until the end of the 12 month period then ask to have their leave paid to them. I can't remember the reason why. My husband has explained it to me. You would think that leave was due anyway i.e. the boss had the budget for staff annual leave. I don't think it's as simple as that. People are discouraged from using their unused annual leave as nothing more than a savings scheme.

A lot of organisations and that includes NZ have a 'use it or lose it' view of annual leave. That means you can only have a minimum amount of days e.g. five days to be carried into the new leave year. The remainder will probably be paid up to you, if the employer has to pay it and of course, it will be taxed. The boss will probably want to know why you did not use or carry over the unused annual leave entitlement. Time off can't be taxed.

Snap Shot

What I resent, is the frankly, 'snob value' of having your paid leave entitlement because you've worked there for a year or more.

As in, 'of course I get my leave paid I've EARNED mine.

jmh

I'm not sure that's legal in Britain. I think you have to use it, carry it over or lose it and many employers have a limit on what you can carry over. Once you've got past the first year the NZ system is more flexible.

Sparkleydiva

I agree, I'm always just scraping together enough days to have a break

quiltman

The UK rules are actually similar. Once you start working, you accrue holiday at a proportionate rate per month - say 2 days - which can be taken the next year. In practice most companies honour existing holiday entitlements so if you have booked say, a week in Ibiza then your new company will allow you to take the time off, but won't necessarily pay you for it. When you leave a company then you get paid for holidays you have "earnt". For example, if you leave 5 months into a new holiday year then you get paid for 5 x your monthly accruel, in my example that would be 10 days less any holiday you have actually taken , NOT your total annual entitlement.That's what we did when I employed anyone as technically when they joined us they had not earnt any holiday pay in our employ so any time off was unpaid. You cannot expect to join on January 1 and get 6 weeks paid holiday the same year, you have to earn it otherwise you join, work 2 weeks, take a week off, resign and expect to be paid for the 5 weeks holiday you haven't taken. Believe me, some folks tried that!!
Again. some companies allow a carry over to the next year. In our case we allowed max of 5 days for which you could have pay in lieu or take the 5 days the next holiday year.

MrsFychan

I understand that he is only entitled to a certain amount of holidays if he leaves the company and that if he has exceeded that then any salary outstanding through the notice period would be minus the holiday entitlement he had not accrued. My point is in the UK you are not told (or we never had the problem) that we had to wait to accrue the 20 entitlement days to use it.

ATM - I wish to go away in the kids 1/2 term but am not able to go along with MrF as he would not of accrued sufficient holiday so he would have to take unpaid leave, which then leaves us possibly in a position of not needing to take holiday later on in the year and getting paid for it or being forced to take as they might not pay out.

Hazelnut

In my, UK owned, company I have to use leave or lose it but workload and targets mean I lose leave every year as I can't take it but can't carry it over either. I end up using around 5-7 days per year of my annual leave to write reports and do paperwork at home as I can never do it in work time without being endlessly disturbed with other work being dumped on my desk. MrH works for a European owned company and they are either allowed to carry it over or paid for it if they have excess left at end of year, it's really good. UK companies are becoming more like NZ and USA with less leave entitlement and poorer working conditions.

I feel sad for you Mrs F as I remember the problem well, MrH and I had one x 2yr stretch where we were never on holiday from work at the same time. It was utterly miserable and triggered a job move in the end.

nikkijane88

Both myself and OH with our employees can go into the negative with entitlement, or take unpaid. Yes I have to accrue my entitlement as opposed to being given when I start, but it's quite similar. My old job before moving if I used my years leave and left 6 months into the leave year, I'd owe the employer back half the entitlement.

However my current employer has no ruling about carrying over, although they are having huge issues with people with a large entitlement that haven't been able to use it

Bo-Jangles

Its a sad old state of affairs I think, there's an underlying attitude that leave is for pussies and those people wear their massive leave balances like a badge on their chest, forever a martyr to their cause of how little leave they have had in the past x number of years. Whilst quietly sloping off on sick leave or mysteriously absent or 'working at home' at every opportunity. Most of course have the ulterior motive and are using the leave balances like a bank account expecting at some point to get it paid out.