Former Lancastrian

How many New Zealanders does it take to change a flag?

It’s the 27-million-dollar question to which, after 10 months, 10,300 designs and two public referendums, we still don’t know the answer – because after all that, the vote was to stick with the same old flag.
Ten months, 10,000 designs, no new flag for New Zealand. What was that about? | World news | The Guardian

I bet most of you would have sooner been given just over $6 each if you wanted to waste 27 million rather than spending it on deciding not to change your flag

jmh

Part of the problem was that there was no real drive to change it in the first place. Most people were underawed with the process, and many of the roadshows were poorly attended. Pro-change people had to lobby hard to motivate people to change and at the end of the day, most people couldn't see the point if the alternative was a flag they didn't like.

Most people would have preferred to see that money spent solving some of the problems we have here.

Charismatic

Best $6 I ever spent annoying a sitting PM. Value at twice the money.

Let's have more plebiscites to annoy established politicians. We could start by changing John Keys official title to "Reawyn from reception."

MrsFychan

Kotare

If the alternative had been black with a silver fern (rather than a dogs breakfast) it would have got through.

Former Lancastrian

Thats a bit unfair on dogs isn't it?

jmh

I don't agree. Most people didn't want a black flag and a significant number didn't want to be represented by a sports logo.

Many people, including the media, don't realise that a large proportion of the population are not rugby fans. Shocking I know, but it is one of the myths of NZ that everybody loves the All Blacks. I would be embarrassed to have their symbol as my flag. It would show the world how shallow we are.

Kotare

Shallow perhaps in your opinion but it would have got through - tell the Maori that the silver fern is purely a sports symbol.

I would add that the silver fern is recognised as kiwi by a significant part of the world and that recognition is what you want as a national emblem.

Pom_Chch

The opinion of the silver fern being purely a sporting symbol is somewhat misguided. The use of the fern dates back to the Second Boer War from early 1900's (and World Wars also) where it was used as an official national symbol of NZ. Sure nowadays it has evolved and is used to represent our sports teams but that is not its only association if you look further into the history of the fern. Now, if the proposed new flag designs had featured a rugby ball I would be completely in agreement that such a design would be too sports orientated! But the reality is the fern has long been a strong symbol in NZ without sporting connotations and has been used in a non-sporting capacity long before the All Blacks existed, which is why I feel there's more to it than sport and can accept it as a perfectly presentable flag symbol.

The general opinion is that a lot of New Zealanders wouldn't mind a new flag, but a lot of people didn't like the designs, which is where a lot of the problem seems to lie.

jmh

I'm not against a fern - there are some great stylised versions out there. What I am against is the All Black fern on a black flag as our national symbol.

Stormer999

'
"All Commonwealth war graves of fallen New Zealand soldiers have the silver fern engraved on their tombstones". I wonder why Perhaps it signifies something.

Gordon Barlow

The black flag looked a bit too like the ISIS flag, at first glance. How many nations have black flags, for God's sake?

Charismatic

Lots of Muslim countries have or have had black flags because it was chosen by Muhammad to represent his religion. Anarchists and pirates as well of course. So on careful consideration perhaps New Zealand isn’t the right place for a black flag.

It may be possible to design a flag more widely liked than the current design but it won’t be created by someone in a couple of months or selected by a committee. It probably won’t be a koru of fern either because they harken back to New Zealands past.

Justcol

No point in arguing about it now
The best option won through in the end

I agree with jmh about the black and silver fern, it's like England ditching the cross of St George
and switching to the 3 lions emblem from the football teams shirt (although not quite the same level of success)
I know others associate the fern with NZ and thats cool, but it's not flag material

Woodlea

What like the maple leaf isn't either? Gotta be one of the most easily recognized flags on earth, like ours could have been, instead of just looking like Australia's