Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe / Scandinavia

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Oct 8th 2016, 7:32 pm   #1
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 3,238
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Norway Announces Massive Withdrawals From Sovereign Wealth Fund To Cover Deficits | Zero Hedge

Yikes! It's just as well to have something held back for a rainy day, but the Fund isn't going to last long at this rate of withdrawal. Good luck, Norskies: I have my fingers crossed for you all, especially my Norwegian grandchildren!
Gordon Barlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2016, 10:41 pm   #2
scot47 
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,475
scot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond reputescot47 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

We could have had a Sovereign Wealth Fun but the Tories said NO
scot47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 16th 2016, 2:06 am   #3
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 3,238
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by scot47 View Post
We could have had a Sovereign Wealth Fun but the Tories said NO
There are actually quite a few Sovereign Wealth Funds around the world - see the list at this link:
Wikipedia (Links) Wikipedia (Links)
We could and should have had one here in Cayman, too, funded by our tax-haven revenues; but our politicians wouldn't give up their local vanity projects, and the UK government wouldn't push the idea.
Gordon Barlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11th 2016, 9:46 pm   #4
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 480
Capo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond reputeCapo Boi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

So, a $885 billion sovereign wealth fund pays out $15 billion. Yikes at a growth rate of 2% the fund keeps getting bigger. Paying out, for education, health, environment and other social issues is what the fund is supposed to do. I think your grandchildren are going to be OK Gordon.

And as for Zero Hedge as originally mentioned:

'Zero Hedge is registered under the name Georgi Georgiev, a business partner of Krassimir Ivandjiiski. In April 2016, the authors writing as "Durden" on the website were reported by Bloomberg News to be Ivandjiiski, Tim Backshall (a credit derivatives strategist), and Colin Lokey'.

One could go on....and obviously one should come to their own conclusion as to the validity of their opinions. Personally, I'm still in the world is flat camp.

Last edited by Capo Boi; Nov 11th 2016 at 10:39 pm.
Capo Boi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 2:26 pm   #5
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
Mike1001 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Its a complicated business. Norwegian wealth fund for me is a strange concept. How does the average Norwegian benefit from a wealth fund owning hotels and real estate in NY? I think a few more decent roads or ensuring the sea does not leak into the main oslo tunnel would be more practical for the average Norwegian citizen or resident.
Its all an illusion otherwise.
I could take this so called wealth funs more seriously if Norway had no debt, but it does. Thats hard to figure for the average fellow now isnt it.
Hige wealth fund securing the future of all Norwegians, but, eh wait a minute, how come there is a pile of debt eroding the wealth fund and nations treasury.
Oh yes its because the govt has to go to the markets to be allowed to print more of their own money and then pay an interest payment on it. See clear as mud.
I wish some financial chap would explain this. I mean explain it, not justify it that is. HNY everyone.
Mike1001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 2:42 pm   #6
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 3,238
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capo Boi View Post
'Zero Hedge is registered under the name Georgi Georgiev, a business partner of Krassimir Ivandjiiski. In April 2016, the authors writing as "Durden" on the website were reported by Bloomberg News to be Ivandjiiski, Tim Backshall (a credit derivatives strategist), and Colin Lokey'.
One could go on....and obviously one should come to their own conclusion as to the validity of their opinions. Personally, I'm still in the world is flat camp.
I have no problems with whoever owns ZH, Boi - or whoever owns any mass-media news-source. I don't read the obvious and proven liars - BBC, CNN, WaPo, NYT, and the like - but ZH carries a variety of opinions: some good, some bad, I guess. The website leans towards an anti-establishment line, but so do I!
Gordon Barlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 2:52 pm   #7
Born again atheist
Premium Member
 
Novocastrian's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 28,978
Novocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond reputeNovocastrian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1001 View Post
Its a complicated business. Norwegian wealth fund for me is a strange concept. How does the average Norwegian benefit from a wealth fund owning hotels and real estate in NY? I think a few more decent roads or ensuring the sea does not leak into the main oslo tunnel would be more practical for the average Norwegian citizen or resident.
Its all an illusion otherwise.
I could take this so called wealth funs more seriously if Norway had no debt, but it does. Thats hard to figure for the average fellow now isnt it.
Hige wealth fund securing the future of all Norwegians, but, eh wait a minute, how come there is a pile of debt eroding the wealth fund and nations treasury.
Oh yes its because the govt has to go to the markets to be allowed to print more of their own money and then pay an interest payment on it. See clear as mud.
I wish some financial chap would explain this. I mean explain it, not justify it that is. HNY everyone.
I'm not a financial chap but surely it's obvious? The Norwegian Wealth fund invests in the things like you mention for the same reason that the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund owned 51% of the Maple Leafs and other non-profits invest in similar stuff. To provide capital growth at a higher rate than expenses growth. The NWF provides beneficial revenue streams to Norwegians in a myriad of ways on an on-going basis fuelled (if you'll excuse the pun) by responsible hoarding of oil revenues and sensible investment policies.

Given the current paltry interest rates on governmental debt it would be insane to use the wealth fund to pay off the deficit. The NWF was set up for long term returns to Norwegians, not for support of politicians and corporations.

The UK went that route under Thatcher. Bad idea.
__________________
Pendelfahrer zwischen Frankreich und England.
Novocastrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 5:19 pm   #8
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
Mike1001 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Well, i just don't get it, how can the average Norwegian be up to his/her bottom lip in debt and at the same time all this lovely money held in trust by their govt. I must be a simple fellow. As far as I can see The vast majority of Norwegians have raging amounts of personal debt and at the same time have a wealth fund which they have somehow ownership of. It certainly does not appear to be making them any wealthier. The roads and infrastructure is terrible. The public transport is hugely expensive, cars have a 100% levy on arrival in the country. I wont say more , except I think there is little to admire regarding their supposed wealth fund policies. I mean for goodness sake they don't even provide warm dinners for the schoolkids.
Mike1001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 5:45 pm   #9
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 3,238
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1001 View Post
Well, i just don't get it, how can the average Norwegian be up to his/her bottom lip in debt and at the same time all this lovely money held in trust by their govt. I must be a simple fellow. As far as I can see The vast majority of Norwegians have raging amounts of personal debt and at the same time have a wealth fund which they have somehow ownership of. It certainly does not appear to be making them any wealthier. The roads and infrastructure is terrible. The public transport is hugely expensive, cars have a 100% levy on arrival in the country. I wont say more , except I think there is little to admire regarding their supposed wealth fund policies. I mean for goodness sake they don't even provide warm dinners for the schoolkids.
Think of it as a way of forced-saving, Mike. Every country has a lot of people who can't or don't save for their old age. I don't live in Norway, but I've been visiting regularly, and I don't think the roads and infrastructure is that terrible. As for warm dinners for the schoolkids: as an old codger I don't have much time for such molly-coddling. I don't know what the general Scandinavian policy is on molly-coddling, but if there's any truth in the legend of self-reliance among their ancestors, the government is probably wise to encourage parents to honour that self-reliance. Actually, the populace is pretty much protected against all sorts of eventualities already; warm school-dinners must be just about the only thing missing!
Gordon Barlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 5:56 pm   #10
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,038
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I'm not a financial chap but surely it's obvious? The Norwegian Wealth fund invests in the things like you mention for the same reason that the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund owned 51% of the Maple Leafs and other non-profits invest in similar stuff. To provide capital growth at a higher rate than expenses growth. The NWF provides beneficial revenue streams to Norwegians in a myriad of ways on an on-going basis fuelled (if you'll excuse the pun) by responsible hoarding of oil revenues and sensible investment policies.

Given the current paltry interest rates on governmental debt it would be insane to use the wealth fund to pay off the deficit. The NWF was set up for long term returns to Norwegians, not for support of politicians and corporations.

The UK went that route under Thatcher. Bad idea.
Yes it is obvious at the current interest rate on debt, good solid investments earning more than the interest rate paid make it logical not to pay off the debt. And credit to Norway that politicians couldn't just squander the money.

What I don't know is does the fund currently payout for Norway current benefits or projects at all ? In Alaska if I recall all residents receive something from their fund.
morpeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3rd 2017, 7:52 pm   #11
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
Mike1001 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

So here we are. A hot dinner at school for an 8 year when its -15c is too much to ask from a country that regularly boasts the best country in the world to live in, and has the highest or top 3 Richest by population score on the planet. Lets just see it for what it is. Scandalous. Just to be clear. There is no facility or will to feed the kids hot food. Its not a matter of payment. I guess it keeps them tough and resilient though.
We appear to live in a world where we are told government and personal debt is bad for some countries, ie UK, but good for others ie Norway. Carve up the figures any way you want. The truth is Debt is bad. According to the logic here we should simply borrow money to invest, which can then be used to service and payback the loans. Its genius. Does the IMF world bank and the Bank of England governor know this; after all this is effectively what Norway is doing. It matters not whether you have the money to start with or not.
Its clear tat once you take away the Norwegian national debt figure from the National wealth fund, then the national wealth fund is not so wealthy after all. So effectively they are borrowing to invest. This underlines my point earlier.
I think this wealth fund banner allows the Norwegian Govt to fool many of its citizens and the rest of us into thinking they and Norway is some kind of wonderland of financial prudence. Fact is most Norwegians are encouraged into huge debt by having incredibly easy access to loans to service astronomical car prices and mortgage demands. Its all going to end very badly when some institution or other decides and figures out it can make more money pulling in its loans and then using the money to invest. Or maybe this model of investing making you more money is a myth. Capital Interest is hard to beat as a money making model after all.
I think this is all too much for me. Im just a simple guy. All this financial talk is best left to guys in fancy suits with accountancy and economic degrees. After all think of the mess someone like me would make of the economy if I had any input.
Im just going to watch some celebrity TV. And leave it to the clever financial people. Im sure they will manage to sort it all out and do whats best for all of us. Cold sandwiches and a mountain of personal and national debt notwithstanding of course.
Mike1001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4th 2017, 11:03 am   #12
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,038
morpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond reputemorpeth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1001 View Post
So here we are. A hot dinner at school for an 8 year when its -15c is too much to ask from a country that regularly boasts the best country in the world to live in, and has the highest or top 3 Richest by population score on the planet. Lets just see it for what it is. Scandalous. Just to be clear. There is no facility or will to feed the kids hot food. Its not a matter of payment. I guess it keeps them tough and resilient though.
We appear to live in a world where we are told government and personal debt is bad for some countries, ie UK, but good for others ie Norway. Carve up the figures any way you want. The truth is Debt is bad. According to the logic here we should simply borrow money to invest, which can then be used to service and payback the loans. Its genius. Does the IMF world bank and the Bank of England governor know this; after all this is effectively what Norway is doing. It matters not whether you have the money to start with or not.
Its clear tat once you take away the Norwegian national debt figure from the National wealth fund, then the national wealth fund is not so wealthy after all. So effectively they are borrowing to invest. This underlines my point earlier.
I think this wealth fund banner allows the Norwegian Govt to fool many of its citizens and the rest of us into thinking they and Norway is some kind of wonderland of financial prudence. Fact is most Norwegians are encouraged into huge debt by having incredibly easy access to loans to service astronomical car prices and mortgage demands. Its all going to end very badly when some institution or other decides and figures out it can make more money pulling in its loans and then using the money to invest. Or maybe this model of investing making you more money is a myth. Capital Interest is hard to beat as a money making model after all.
I think this is all too much for me. Im just a simple guy. All this financial talk is best left to guys in fancy suits with accountancy and economic degrees. After all think of the mess someone like me would make of the economy if I had any input.
Im just going to watch some celebrity TV. And leave it to the clever financial people. Im sure they will manage to sort it all out and do whats best for all of us. Cold sandwiches and a mountain of personal and national debt notwithstanding of course.
Well let's keep it simple then.

1. If you earn more on your investments than you pay on the debt. it makes sense to keep the investments and not pay off the debt. ( Of course one has to look at risk factors etc).

2. Keeping a reserve for a rainy day always makes sense. If for example I have 10,000 pounds, and 9,000 in debt to pay, would I pay off debt immediately and only have 1,000 pounds reserve for emergencies or unforeseen expenses ? I don't know particulars of Norway but makes sense to have a reserve for the future. One can always find 1,000 things that should be paid for, but just like a personal budget we cant always buy everything we want.
morpeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4th 2017, 1:59 pm   #13
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 59
Mike1001 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund

Thanks Morpeth.
I do think you may be running the risk of over-simplifying now Me? Im off to watch Geordie shore now.
Mike1001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   British Expats / Living & Moving Abroad / Europe / Scandinavia


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 3:57 am.


Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com