Meow

Interesting point, but no matter what he earns or does, Wayne Rooney could never be anythng other than working class.

Spugsy

As far as I'm concerned it's how you're raised, your mates, what you do with your money, what school you went to etc.

Both my parents were teachers so some claim I am middle class, but I've always seen myself as working class - a normal lad who goes to teh football, doesn't spend stupid money on things, talks with an accent and doesn't try to hide where I'm from.

Spugsy

Well so is everyone's over here - I now earn good money and have nice holidays, but has that changed my class?

I'd hate to think I'm middle class to be honest.

John Lennon made tons of money, did he ever stop being working class?

Spugsy

Newcastle is a very different place to how it used to be, so much arts and amazing places to eat, go out and see - you'd be surprised. Clubs that only let certain people in and charge £12 a pint.

Would never happen in my day...

Ethos83

Why would you hate to think you're middle class?

What does it mean to you - to be middle class as opposed to working class? Your statement implies strong negative connotations associated with being middle class or above.

W10

I thought the general class classifiers were related to education and employment rather than money.

Plenty of 'Upper Class' people don't have any money and plenty of working class people have a lot. There is of course, technically an underclass now too.

The UK is unhealthy obsessed with class though.

Ethos83

That could be a middle class person, no?

You know - from a middle class perspective it's the working classes who spend stupid money on things they can't afford, from outlandish gypsy style weddings to fancy trainers and holidays in Costa Brava while the middle classes are left grumbling about high taxations and not being able to afford a holiday in years because of skyrocking school fees.

W10

Working class is a badge of honour. The 'honest' working class way of life is seen as a desirable one. The Manic's have made mention of this a few times...

Spugsy

Because I've always seen myself as a normal working class Geordie lad. People in the Toon who claimed to be middle class when I was growing up were usualyl the 'keeping up with the jones' types who had a little bit of cash and tried to flaunt it, even though they'd been brought up in council houses.

Spugsy

Aye ore than likely, go to somewhere like Australia and there literally are no class barriers at all, everyone is the same, it's very refreshing.

Meow

That is probably true but the topic arises again and again. I am just curious about peoples' views. For those who have forgotten it was John Prescott who claimed that 'we are all middle class now' and even David Cameron has recently claimed to be middle class.

George Bernard Shaw said (in Pygmalion) "the moment an Englishman opens his mouth, another Englishman despises him". I suspect the same applies to other criteria too.

Ethos83

Because they were brought up in council houses at one point they couldn't be middle class later? You're implying that if someone starts out life in one position they're doomed to remain in it for the rest of their lives.

This is where the silly notions of "gettin' above meself" comes from, and lord, is it a damaging attitude.

If you work hard and you achieved your success fairly, by all means spend it in ways that makes you happy. I'm sure there are people in the Toon who look at you and jeer because you're taking "posh" holidays to exotic locale, flaunting your newfound success and betraying the sensibilities of your "working class" background.

I agree with the above poster - people in Britain can be very, very silly about class attitudes and this applies to everyone up and down the class hierarchy.

Meow

Now we are getting into the realms of social mobility.

I'd suggest that those who disapprove are often those with a chip on their shoulder.

Ethos83

Oh, Australia has "classes." So does the US. It's just much more subtle and it's more culturally based than income based. The refreshing aspect of it is that there's hardly any class discrimination and people don't talk about class pride or be anti working, anti middle or anti upper class.

Spugsy

I don't see why you would be 'doomed' to be working class?

Yeah I'm sure there is, but I think remembering where you're from and not losing sight (which happens a lot in Dubai) is the important thing.