Meow

Well, are we? Are you? Or are there many people who are actually working class who claim to be middle class as they think it sounds better?

Is it about manners, money, education, occupation, the newspaper you take, how you hold your cutlery, your accent or opportunities? Or something else entirely?

MataHari

I have no idea what 'class' I belong to... in Holland people don't seem to be that bothered about the whole class system, not saying that everybody is 'equal' but it's just not such an issue over there...

To me it seems like a lot of British people try and pretend to be a higher class than they actually are (the whole mrs Bucket thing) but there are also those who love to accentuate that they are 'lower class' and have done really well but stayed 'humble' so to speak...guess for non Brits it's all a bit confusing?

commander

manners maketh a man, not the class of a man (or woman)

I do agree with the cutlery remark. the amount of times that i see people at dinner using the fork/knife as a pointer during conversation. I just want to scream....'if your not cutting your food or in the process of sticking some grub in your gob, put the scranspanners down'

Dubai is full of working class people who come here and take on a middle class view of themselves, whilst spitting, getting pissed and acting like *****.

id go with the 'something else entirely' option.

I would put myself in the working class category, but a working class guy with a lot more class than most people who perceive themselves as middle class because they earn a good salary and are members of a beach club.

Millhouse

Awesome. I say no more.

kittycat1

Tricky one Meow,

I think working class has changed. I hate to call myself middle class as I am from a working class background and would never say I was to make myself look better as I don't think it would- I think people would have more respect for me knowing what I have acheived and where I have come from, but in reality I financially would be classed as middle class I guess, but still have a working classs mentality- you graft because you have to and you work hard. Nothing comes for free and life is what you make it. At the end of the day finance is about security, being able to buy your own home (which is quite a new concept really) and support yourself and your family. I can remember having a heated debate with a very middle class guy in a bar one night who told me he wanted to retire by 40- I couldn't get my head around this- to do what? Holiday, ride horses, live a life of Riley?- I couldn't stand it- how about help the communities around you, mentor youngsters- give back to a community, its far more rewarding than living a selfish life but he couldn't understand that- having been bought up a very priviliged life he had no concept of giving back to people (or just bad parenting perhaps but something I have seen other wealthy people with a similar arrogance).

I think it is hard to relate to newspapers in the same way that politics no longer defines your class as politics has changed so much- my dear old granny is so old labour I daren't even mention the word conservative to her as she would clobber me around the ear, but labour isn't labour as it was- and conservative has moved closer to where labour is- much of a muchness really. Education is free to everyone to the age of 18 so there are no more kids going up chimneys anymore and going to university is open to anyone (well it was up until teh fee s hav been put up). I was the first of my family line to ever go to uni but it wasn't easy financially, does that make me no longer working class even though I worked though uni to keep myself there?

I think it comes down to attitude, whether you be from working, middle or upper class you can make something of yourself or not- using your background as a reason for failure is ludicrous, it may be harder from certain backgrounds but nothing is impossible. I would like to think I still have a working class attitude- not too good for anyone and would go out of my way to help other people where I can. I'd shovel shit if I had to but luckily I have found a career that enables me not to have to do that- perhaps that is what makes the difference- being able to follow a career rather than take any job. A career is a luxury really where as a job puts food on the table.

The lines are far more blurred than they used to be- but looking at the state of the UK at the moment we may well see a clearer divide between the wealthy and the struggling. Having said that it is far easier and more acceptable to go bankrupt than it used to be but I'd be interested to know is it people form middle class rather than working class that are doing so?

CHAVs are a different class altogether and shouldn't eb confused with working class!

xxx

Bahtatboy

You've done a fantastic job of disguising your Pajero, Millhouse. I'm deeply impressed

Meow

I rather like this definition of the British middle class:

“You are neither descended from the Saxe-Coburg dynasty nor do your children work up chimneys and smoke Lambert & Butler.”

BurpusMe

Using the dictionary definition, I'd assume we're all middle class.

working class the social group consisting of people who are employed for wages, esp. in manual or industrial work

middle class the social group between the upper and working classes, including professional and business workers and their families

upper class the social group that has the highest status in society, esp. the aristocracy

However I can't escape the feeling that these socio-economic labels all are just an elaborate charade, used to self-pacify and stroke ones ego. Or maybe that's middle-class guilt talking.

Hello.Kitty

I've always been middle class... my parents are middle class, as were my grandparents and their parents before them, in that we've all had decent enough jobs, decent enough places to live (save skanky student digs) and a decent enough income allowing us to afford a few "luxuries" with a bit of awareness and forward planning.

I'd echo Kittycat's comment that it comes down to attitude though. I'm the first one on my Dad's side of the family to go to Uni and they're the bunch who have attitude! My Dad would have got several ASBOs had they been around when he was a kid, but his mum would always ask the policemen to go to the back door!

I also don't think it's a wealth thing any more, mainly because, well, let's face it, many unemployed chavs actually have more disposable income than a University graduate or young professional and many tradesmen, who would be traditionally considered working class) are wealthier than well, a professional couple (namely me). I think it's more about mentality, aspiration and yes, attitude... although I can't actually put my finger on the crucial details of any of them.

Oh, and if cutlery is the defining factor, both my aunts are eyeing up the 2 full canteens of silver that my grandma has in her possession and I invested in my own full set for 12 covers last year because a/ I could and b/ I have a real issue eating soup with a desert spoon. The sundae spoons maybe were a bit overkill.

Spugsy

I'd like to think I'm working class, and proud of it.

Millhouse

Give me some credit. This isn't mine. I would have put gold rims on it.

Meow

But your occupation is rather middle class, is it not? And Mrs S's too.

Millhouse

My thoughts:

working class those that watch Eastenders on Christmas day.

middle class those that play Monopoly on Christmas day.

upper class those that do not own a television.

flares

Do you get Middle Class Geordies?

The Dean

Trouble is, the barriers between income and class have become rather blurred.

Can you improve your socio-economic status with income? Good question.........

What is the socio-economic status of a working class Scouse lad who now earns about GBP 7 million per year (Wayne Rooney, say)? Working classes never earned that kind of money - couldn't earn that kind of money - until recently.........