Millhouse

Don't let these details get in the way.

scrubbedexpat141

The way I see it, is comparing the two isn't that easy.

Obama halted the refugee programme. Refugees only. From one country. Obama gave no preference to minority religions from Iraq like Christians. Obama responded to an actual threat where two Iraqi refugees had been making bombs in Iraq, targeting US soldiers.

Trump has stopped legal residents, green card holders and refugees. Trump’s order gives preference to religious minority groups, such as Christians, when the admissions resume. Trump is doing this in response to nothing, other than his campaign promises.


I'm sure under your old username you weren't such a troll.

Boomhauer

It was reported early on that Canadians who also held citizenship in 1 of those 7 countries would be banned. I suppose the US clarified it later that Canadian citizens would be exempt even if they held dual citizenship in 1 of those 7 Muslim countries. Though it's all moot now as a Federal judge put a stay on the ban.

Canadian dual citizens can travel freely to the U.S. despite Trump travel ban - Canada - CBC News

How Trump's travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens - CNNPolitics.com

Boomhauer

Not an apt comparison. Here, the Chicago Tribune explains why.
Fact check: Trump's claim that his refugee policy is similar to Obama's in 2011 - Chicago Tribune

Obama did not blanket ban refugees from any Muslim country nor ban visa holders, green card holders and ban issuance of visas. What the Obama admin did was not process refugee applications for Iraqis for 6 months. Not processing is not the same as a ban.

Boomhauer

He didn't even ban Saudis and Pakistanis, so he was trying to pull the wool over the eyes of those Americans who expected him to do good on his promise.

tintriangle

'Alternative facts' is the latest buzz-phrase covering lies.
I prefer a phrase that stuck with me since my early days on site and stated with great authority to me by a seasoned subcontractor in a thick Yorkshire accent - "these are the facts as we see them". Brilliant.

tintriangle

Extract from today's Times on line:

"Donald Trump’s senior team backed down last night on plans to ban certain dual-nationality Britons from travelling to the United States.
Amid a global outcry at the president’s executive order, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, won assurances that UK citizens affected — including the Olympian Sir Mo Farah — could continue to enter freely. The agreement came after talks with Jared Kushner, the president’s senior adviser and son-in-law.
Only British citizens who are travelling direct from one of seven blacklisted countries — and hold passports from those nations — will be affected by the ban, reducing the numbers caught up."

So that's all right then: pull the ladder up.

IKnowNothing

There is a POSTPONEMENT (NOT BAN) of entry from 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen) previously identified by the Obama administration as posing extraordinary risks. That they are 7 majority Muslim countries does not mean there is a Muslim ban, as most of the countries with the largest Muslim populations are not on the list (e.g., Egypt, Indonesia, Saudi, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Turkey, Nigeria and more).

Thus, the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world is not affected.

Moreover, the “POSTPONEMENT” is only for four months while procedures are reviewed, with the exception of Syria for which there is no time limit.

There is a logic to the 7 countries. Six are failed states known to have large ISIS activity, and one, Iran, is a sworn enemy of the U.S. and worldwide sponsor of terrorism.

The 7 countries on the list were NOT even designated by Trump, rather, they were selected last year by the Obama administration as posing special risks for visa entry, as even CNN concedes in passing:

The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as “countries of concern”.

The executive order also bans entry of those fleeing from war-torn Syria indefinitely.

Inselaffen

interesting video clip

IKnowNothing

I don't recall seeing mass demonstrations on the streets back then. Do you?

Autonomy

That video is about illegal immigrants / illegal aliens unless I am mistaken? Also 20 years old and the world has changed unless you'd noticed.

How is banning or refusing entry to legal immigrants or refugees or indeed green card holders the same in any way? None of these people have been found guilty of any crime and all were endeavouring to enter the US legally.

THERE IS A MASSIVE F--KING DIFFERENCE

Further - IKnowNothing - I am curious, how would you react if you were, by chance, in such a situation where you held a green card and had been a legal taxpayer, with work, a general life, kids in schools, business commitments, perhaps with a mortgage, tax payer living in the US for many years and you were now refused entry back to where your home is? You'd done no wrong, totally above board, but just not allowed back.

Boomhauer

Gulf airlines are reputed to have changed their crew roster as a result of the Trump ban.

old.sparkles

If you are going to quote somebody else's work, it's good practice to name the source. Not sure if there are other links but this is one - Most claims about Trump’s visa executive order are false or misleading « Hot Air Headlines

I've tried googling for a link to any info on what countries were deemed to be 'posing extraordinary risks' without success. There is this official examination on the risks around the globe produced by the US - https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/239631.pdf

I think that some of the countries listed in the ban (which keeps changing as to who is and isn't covered) but given that the examination is a country by country one, that is moot.

Some countries listed as being terrorist safe havens in the report are excluded from the ban.

Inselaffen

it has nothing to do with the ban but a lot do do with Trump's stance on illegal immigration from mexico. Which Trump opponents have also been demonstrating about!

nobody in their right mind can support the ban he introduced

flood2

of the 7 countries Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. How many of these do UAE allow working/visitor visas for?