And so it begins...
Jan 23rd 2017, 2:21 pm
#46
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Location: Abu Dhabi via Barcelona
Posts: 1,478
Re: And so it begins...
The taming of the shrews maybe?
Anyway:-
President Trump on imposing a border tax: “A company that wants to fire all of its people in the United States and build some factory someplace else, and then thinks that that product is just going to flow across the border into the United States – that’s not going to happen.”
Can anyone argue with that statement?
Anyway:-
President Trump on imposing a border tax: “A company that wants to fire all of its people in the United States and build some factory someplace else, and then thinks that that product is just going to flow across the border into the United States – that’s not going to happen.”
Can anyone argue with that statement?
Jan 24th 2017, 3:46 am
#47
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: And so it begins...
The taming of the shrews maybe?
Anyway:-
President Trump on imposing a border tax: “A company that wants to fire all of its people in the United States and build some factory someplace else, and then thinks that that product is just going to flow across the border into the United States – that’s not going to happen.”
Can anyone argue with that statement?
Anyway:-
President Trump on imposing a border tax: “A company that wants to fire all of its people in the United States and build some factory someplace else, and then thinks that that product is just going to flow across the border into the United States – that’s not going to happen.”
Can anyone argue with that statement?
Who needs a Prado when you can have the Dadi Shuttle?
Jan 24th 2017, 3:53 am
#48
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Doher
Posts: 72
Re: And so it begins...
John Redwood. The John Redwood who became a laughing stock for (badly) miming the Welsh national anthem when Secretary of State for Wales? The John Redwood who voted consistently against LGBT rights and same sex marriage, and for the reintroduction of capital punishment?
I won't be giving any credence to anything he says.
(I've even set aside the Vulcan references in the interests of fairness.)
I won't be giving any credence to anything he says.
(I've even set aside the Vulcan references in the interests of fairness.)
If any of these matters had informed his instructive piece then maybe there would be grounds for suspecting its credence.
I find his experience in senior banking and industry positions plus his intimate knowledge of the political landscape have given him the ability to write a cogent, interesting and thought-proving for me at least, article.
Had it been written by anyone else would you still have dismissed the ideas he sets out I wonder?
Jan 24th 2017, 4:11 am
#49
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,520
Re: And so it begins...
One must demonstrate some respect for China. After all, they went from abject poverty to what they are now in just 25 years. I remember when China first opened up circa 1990 for my parents went there. It's astonishing. And China achieved this through being heavily protectionist, manipulative, nationalistic, rigging the game in their favour, taking advantage of other countries (particularly the West's) naivety. And it worked.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
It's a great idea, then they can be more like China.
Who needs a Prado when you can have the Dadi Shuttle?
http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a71_fake8.jpg
Who needs a Prado when you can have the Dadi Shuttle?
http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a71_fake8.jpg
Jan 24th 2017, 4:28 am
#50
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: And so it begins...
One must demonstrate some respect for China. After all, they went from abject poverty to what they are now in just 25 years. I remember when China first opened up circa 1990 for my parents went there. It's astonishing. And China achieved this through being heavily protectionist, manipulative, nationalistic, rigging the game in their favour, taking advantage of other countries (particularly the West's) naivety. And it worked.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
Whilst I don't believe the Bransons, Gates, Apple, McDonalds etc made their money by being the nicest part of every deal, I always get the impression the Chinese have wanted to be super rich with a world leading GDP, military and compete as the number one superpower. Now, they're still a long way off the EU, let alone the US, but one of the things that strikes me about China is that it doesn't give two shits what the cost is to be number one. Their own people? **** em. Neighbours? **** em. World politics? **** it. Competition? **** em. Environment? **** it. (Threw that last one in just to give you some anti-liberal stuff to use, even though my care for the environment is actually very low).
Whilst I am a believe in laissez-faire economics, so come at this from a negative already, the government owning, operating and running everything with such blatant brutality in this drive to be the best is not actually that admirable and does not go towards understanding the realities of the world better than other nations - whether you call them 'pussfooting western liberals' or anything else (which is getting very boring personally. Being labelled as a liberal or SJW just because I'm not as right wing in my beliefs as others is...I dunno. Weird?).
Jan 24th 2017, 4:59 am
#51
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,520
Re: And so it begins...
I don't disagree with everything you say and I didn't call you in particular a pussyfooting western liberal.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
Rampant theft and manipulation.....Sounds like someone fancies a return of the Empire? As cool as that would be to dominate the world once more I don't think that retrogressing hundreds of years is a great idea personally.
Whilst I don't believe the Bransons, Gates, Apple, McDonalds etc made their money by being the nicest part of every deal, I always get the impression the Chinese have wanted to be super rich with a world leading GDP, military and compete as the number one superpower. Now, they're still a long way off the EU, let alone the US, but one of the things that strikes me about China is that it doesn't give two shits what the cost is to be number one. Their own people? **** em. Neighbours? **** em. World politics? **** it. Competition? **** em. Environment? **** it. (Threw that last one in just to give you some anti-liberal stuff to use, even though my care for the environment is actually very low).
Whilst I am a believe in laissez-faire economics, so come at this from a negative already, the government owning, operating and running everything with such blatant brutality in this drive to be the best is not actually that admirable and does not go towards understanding the realities of the world better than other nations - whether you call them 'pussfooting western liberals' or anything else (which is getting very boring personally. Being labelled as a liberal or SJW just because I'm not as right wing in my beliefs as others is...I dunno. Weird?).
Whilst I don't believe the Bransons, Gates, Apple, McDonalds etc made their money by being the nicest part of every deal, I always get the impression the Chinese have wanted to be super rich with a world leading GDP, military and compete as the number one superpower. Now, they're still a long way off the EU, let alone the US, but one of the things that strikes me about China is that it doesn't give two shits what the cost is to be number one. Their own people? **** em. Neighbours? **** em. World politics? **** it. Competition? **** em. Environment? **** it. (Threw that last one in just to give you some anti-liberal stuff to use, even though my care for the environment is actually very low).
Whilst I am a believe in laissez-faire economics, so come at this from a negative already, the government owning, operating and running everything with such blatant brutality in this drive to be the best is not actually that admirable and does not go towards understanding the realities of the world better than other nations - whether you call them 'pussfooting western liberals' or anything else (which is getting very boring personally. Being labelled as a liberal or SJW just because I'm not as right wing in my beliefs as others is...I dunno. Weird?).
Jan 24th 2017, 5:13 am
#52
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,641
Re: And so it begins...
One must demonstrate some respect for China. After all, they went from abject poverty to what they are now in just 25 years. I remember when China first opened up circa 1990 for my parents went there. It's astonishing. And China achieved this through being heavily protectionist, manipulative, nationalistic, rigging the game in their favour, taking advantage of other countries (particularly the West's) naivety. And it worked.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
It doesn't mean I approve of what China's done or and their rampant theft of intellectual property and manipulation of trade, but they understand the realities of the world better than a bunch of pussyfooting western liberals.
Jan 24th 2017, 5:32 am
#53
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: And so it begins...
So having examined his exposition you choose to dismiss it because of an unwise decision 20 years ago either not to learn and then to have attempted to sing an important song in an unfamiliar language, together with some personal beliefs. I guess your Vulcan reference is not to my Avatar but to Redwood's slightly protruding ears - another non-sequiteur.
If any of these matters had informed his instructive piece then maybe there would be grounds for suspecting its credence.
I find his experience in senior banking and industry positions plus his intimate knowledge of the political landscape have given him the ability to write a cogent, interesting and thought-proving for me at least, article.
Had it been written by anyone else would you still have dismissed the ideas he sets out I wonder?
If any of these matters had informed his instructive piece then maybe there would be grounds for suspecting its credence.
I find his experience in senior banking and industry positions plus his intimate knowledge of the political landscape have given him the ability to write a cogent, interesting and thought-proving for me at least, article.
Had it been written by anyone else would you still have dismissed the ideas he sets out I wonder?
The Vulcan thing was all across the press for several years. You must not have been paying attention was he was a much despised cabinet member.
I don't like him and I don't like his politics. I am not a Tory. It is allowed even on this apparently ultra right wing forum.
Trump is vile, his attitudes are appalling, and whilst he is now the President of the USA and other politicians are going to have to work with him it does not mean we have to appease him or simply tolerate the his actions and those of his government.
His first day in office and he was signing away women's rights, signing away human rights. This is just the beginning.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/w...pgtype=article
I don't want him to fail, I want him to be a better man and do a good job but I am not optimistic, nor are 90% of my friends in the US.
Jan 24th 2017, 5:37 am
#54
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: And so it begins...
I don't disagree with everything you say and I didn't call you in particular a pussyfooting western liberal.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
THE COMING WAR ON CHINA - A NEW PILGER FILM FOR TV AND CINEMA
Obviously he has his own political bias (don't we all?) but it is both fascinating and very worrying, especially the second half. The US is terrified of China and Trump's anti-China statements added to the mix are a real cause of concern. There is a lot of sabre-rattling in the Pacific region.
Jan 24th 2017, 5:44 am
#55
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: And so it begins...
I don't disagree with everything you say and I didn't call you in particular a pussyfooting western liberal.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
The failures of the Western leadership (the pussyfooting liberals) in the last generation regarding China was their general belief that if they let China sit at the table then China would behave nicely and play by the rules along with all the other Western/developed countries. China did not. The western leadership did not sufficiently 'punish' China but allowed this double faced behaviour to persist - China is forever saying one thing in public but privately laughing at the West behind the scenes and goes ahead and does exactly what they want to do, in everything from trade to environmental issues. China has a long term end game (which is well within their rights), but which also makes me highly suspicious of China and the continuing influence of the Chinese economy on the rest of the world.
I'm not saying the West, whether the US or the UK, should adopt such double-faced attitudes (not at all) but the weakness of the western approach in dealing with China needs to be corrected and be much, much stronger. And by taking on a more nationalistic / defensive approach with our own economies is one way of doing this. The Western tolerance of China's antics has allowed it to grow into a highly unpredictable beast and the best way to control it is to lessen our dependence on China.
We have relied on the fact they can do most things OK, but not some things and not a lot of things greatly. Take pens for example, they import cheap ballpoints because they can't work out how to make them as well as they already made (can't remember source, recent news article though).
They're a funny bunch the Chinese. Trump needs to be careful, as do the Chinese with their neighbours.
Jan 24th 2017, 6:23 am
#56
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Doher
Posts: 72
Re: And so it begins...
The fact that I like or do not like someone means only that I must grit my teeth at times whilst I listen to their informed opinion.
Jan 24th 2017, 7:19 am
#57
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
Posts: 13,713
Re: And so it begins...
Oh please!
I merely suggested you had missed something in the press. How could i get personal as no one know who you are apart from someone who has appeared to bang a drum for Trump and the like? Do you share his thin skin but are fine with insulting others too?
Jan 24th 2017, 7:19 am
#58
...---...
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 484
Re: And so it begins...
The Vulcan thing was all across the press for several years. You must not have been paying attention was he was a much despised cabinet member.
I don't like him and I don't like his politics. I am not a Tory. It is allowed even on this apparently ultra right wing forum.
Trump is vile, his attitudes are appalling, and whilst he is now the President of the USA and other politicians are going to have to work with him it does not mean we have to appease him or simply tolerate the his actions and those of his government.
His first day in office and he was signing away women's rights, signing away human rights. This is just the beginning.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/w...pgtype=article
I don't want him to fail, I want him to be a better man and do a good job but I am not optimistic, nor are 90% of my friends in the US.
I don't like him and I don't like his politics. I am not a Tory. It is allowed even on this apparently ultra right wing forum.
Trump is vile, his attitudes are appalling, and whilst he is now the President of the USA and other politicians are going to have to work with him it does not mean we have to appease him or simply tolerate the his actions and those of his government.
His first day in office and he was signing away women's rights, signing away human rights. This is just the beginning.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/w...pgtype=article
I don't want him to fail, I want him to be a better man and do a good job but I am not optimistic, nor are 90% of my friends in the US.
Bit dramatic (and wrong) to say he is signing away women's rights. The women still have the right to seek help with contraception and abortion. The bill he signed means that the US will no longer pay for this.
Last edited by Fossildog; Jan 24th 2017 at 7:22 am.
Jan 24th 2017, 7:24 am
#59
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Location: Abu Dhabi via Barcelona
Posts: 1,478
Re: And so it begins...
The Vulcan thing was all across the press for several years. You must not have been paying attention was he was a much despised cabinet member.
I don't like him and I don't like his politics. I am not a Tory. It is allowed even on this apparently ultra right wing forum.
Trump is vile, his attitudes are appalling, and whilst he is now the President of the USA and other politicians are going to have to work with him it does not mean we have to appease him or simply tolerate the his actions and those of his government.
His first day in office and he was signing away women's rights, signing away human rights. This is just the beginning.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/w...pgtype=article
I don't want him to fail, I want him to be a better man and do a good job but I am not optimistic, nor are 90% of my friends in the US.
I don't like him and I don't like his politics. I am not a Tory. It is allowed even on this apparently ultra right wing forum.
Trump is vile, his attitudes are appalling, and whilst he is now the President of the USA and other politicians are going to have to work with him it does not mean we have to appease him or simply tolerate the his actions and those of his government.
His first day in office and he was signing away women's rights, signing away human rights. This is just the beginning.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/w...pgtype=article
I don't want him to fail, I want him to be a better man and do a good job but I am not optimistic, nor are 90% of my friends in the US.
If you mean the abortion part of his executive order, that is only for "State Funding", in other words, "I don't agree with funding this so it will stop", there is nothing stopping the private sector from funding it.
If you look at the history of the "Mexico City policy", you will see that since Reagan brought it in it has been a game of tennis, within the first few days of every new POTUS since Reagan it has either been repealed or re-instated.
It's hardly a surprise is it.
(I am a pro abortionist btw).
Jan 24th 2017, 7:38 am
#60
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Doher
Posts: 72
Re: And so it begins...
Oh dear. I seem to have failed to make it clear that I take the view that there is a difference between someone's beliefs and informed opinion.