Scottish Independence

Old Sep 10th 2014, 11:20 am
  #91  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Eeyore
I didn't say he should, did I? But it's true that he's been given a remarkably easy ride by the no campaign, which hasn't held him properly to account. Along with the rest of the public figures in the SNP, he's been allowed to get away with painting a picture of an independent Scotland as the Socialist Republic of Blisstonia without actually providing any detailed counter-arguments to the many extremely valid claims put forward by the no campaign.

An article in the Telegraph summed this up pretty well:

"In what is easily the biggest lie in a war that has been notable for several whoppers, Alex Salmond has decreed that a vote against his plan to break up Britain would mean the increasing privatisation of the NHS in Scotland. More and more health provision would go out to private tender, he claims, whilst what’s left would be starved of cash.

That he and his supporters can repeat this monstrous calumny with a straight face and with no sign that they’ve got their fingers crossed behind their backs is remarkable for the simple reason that health policy north of the border, along with education and the legal system, has always been the responsibility of Scottish ministers who, since devolution, are answerable only to the Scottish Parliament. This means that the only person who can privatise the NHS in Scotland is Alex Salmond..."

...and as it turns out, the Scottish government *has* been hiving off NHS operations and even whole departments to the private sector. And yet the Yes campaign has been using slogans like "Vote Yes To Save The NHS"
i agree completely and i doubt that he can believe his luck with how appallingly shambolic and downright ****ing useless BT have been.

Its almost as though No wants to lose! Although I actually think they honestly believed it would be a landslide for no.
Bet they wish they'd kept devo max on the table now
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 2:02 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Eeyore
he's been allowed to get away with painting a picture of an independent Scotland as the Socialist Republic of Blisstonia
Of course he’s been painting this picture, in the same way the Darling et al have been (trying) to paint the picture that a Yes vote will cause a sinkhole to open up and swallow the UK.

The demonisation of Salmond by many is somewhat galling when the alternatives are Cameron, Clegg and Milliband – perhaps collectively the least inspiring group of politicians in a generation – who have palmed off the No campaign to Darling who has been utterly incompetent.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 2:33 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

It doesn’t add up - The Scotsman
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 3:09 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

My aged P, who spent his life in the money markets, summoned me back in July when sterling was flirting with 1.7 USD. He reminded me that there was a pesky referendum coming up and that no matter what the polls said, sterling was most likely going to drop the closer to the referendum date and advised me to move all the sterling I had into USD.

If there was a No vote, sterling would rebound but there would be sufficient time to convert back and still make a little profit. If there was a yes vote, he expected a run on sterling and that it could drop to as low as 1.5 or even less in the year following the vote.

People too easily forget that sterling has the proven capacity to drop sharply in a short time span and has been down in the 1.4s in the not too distant past.

I complied with his advice, switched at 1.7 and now sterling is down to 1.614.

If there is a Yes vote, the full economic ramifications are still unknown but I must side with the economic experts who have not been bullish at all. England will rebound much more quickly, but who knows what it will be for Scotland.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 3:47 pm
  #95  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Inselaffen
Don't get me wrong, I'm a no (if given the vote) but if, as this article states, it doesn't add up then why are wee 'eck & co so blinkered?
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 3:53 pm
  #96  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Well, I postal voted Yes last week. Didn't think twice about it.

- One less layer of government bloat (Westminster)
- More accountability for the remaining government bloat (Holyrood)
- IMF intervention within two years and the commensurate gutting of the massive public sector as part of the bailout

Onwards and upwards...

[J]
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:15 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Johnnyboy11
Well, I postal voted Yes last week. Didn't think twice about it.

- One less layer of government bloat (Westminster)
- More accountability for the remaining government bloat (Holyrood)
- IMF intervention within two years and the commensurate gutting of the massive public sector as part of the bailout

Onwards and upwards...

[J]
r you resident in scotland?
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:18 pm
  #98  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Inselaffen
just as easy to point out the opposite

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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:37 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

I'm smelling BS on the 'mysterious' 4 billion. Scotland has a debt to service, part of the national debt. As I understand Scotlands debt currently stands at 12 billion.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:42 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by mikewot
I'm smelling BS on the 'mysterious' 4 billion. Scotland has a debt to service, part of the national debt. As I understand Scotlands debt currently stands at 12 billion.
yes, and? there is barely a nation on earth with out a debt.

I'm about to Foxtrot oscar but i believe scotlands 12 billion is lower per head than most countries, sure google will see you right
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:52 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by the_red_sheep
The demonisation of Salmond by many is somewhat galling
He's built his career on demonising Westminster and blaming it for everything. Which makes it odd that he wants the Bank of England to underwrite an "independent" Scotland. As Mark Carney pointed out, a meaningful currency union would mean Scotland would have to cede so much control over fiscal policy that it would render the notion of it being an "independent" country ridiculous.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:52 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by shiva
yes, and? there is barely a nation on earth with out a debt.
The point that the yes link you posted was making was that if Scotland didn't have to cough up the 4 billion every year it would be a land of milk & honey. Which is precisely what wee eck will have you believe.

I'm just not understanding something. In all of the papers etc. we read about the financial implications of a yes vote. We read how large financial companies are warning against it, like BP & Standard Life (BP Statement Regarding Scotland | Press | BP Global Update for shareholders, customers and advisers - Standard Life plc) and yet wee eck continues to bury his head in the sand Salmond attacks Standard Life for scaremongering over plan to move business to England | Herald Scotland

My failure to understand is this. Wee eck and the other senior yes campaigners are surely not so stupid or so manically egotistical in the pursuit of 'Freedom'!! that they are totally oblivious to the consequences of what will happen when (because these companies have publicly stated so) the big companies foxtrot oscar south of the wall. Or are they?
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 4:54 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

The particular flaw in your link is that the writer factored in offshore tax receipts from oil and broke it down on a geographic basis without explaining how the geographic basis was determined - note that he stated geographic, not population basis, and that doubtlessly explains why his article claims a higher net contribution per head from Scotland versus England

The North Sea oil has always been a red herring in all these debates. Elements of the Yes side like to talk about how Britain "stole" the oil wealth from Scotland, while ignoring that Scotland is....ahem....part of Britain and it was the British government who developed the oil industry. But more to the point, that's the past. The only thing that matters is the future.

And the future predictions for the North Sea oil isn't good. This is straight from the mouth of all the oil companies. Oil production and oil revenues are down sharply since 1999 because the oil is running out. Salmond has come up with wildly divergent claims for future oil revenues that has been laughed at by the industry itself. His economic "plan" for Scotland's future rests on revenues from an oil supply that doesn't exist.

And let's not even get into the irony over claiming the oil because it happens to be in Scotland while ignoring the massive debt incurred in bailing out Scottish banks by the UK government, despite that the funding for the bailouts came primarily from English taxpayers.

If you're going to vote yes, it's obviously going to be because of the heart, not because of economics.



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Old Sep 10th 2014, 5:00 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: Scottish Independence

Originally Posted by Ethos82
And the future predictions for the North Sea oil isn't good. This is straight from the mouth of all the oil companies. Oil production and oil revenues are down sharply since 1999 because the oil is running out. Salmond has come up with wildly divergent claims for future oil revenues that has been laughed at by the industry itself. His economic "plan" for Scotland's future rests on revenues from an oil supply that doesn't exist.
In my previous links there is mention (by BP) of Sir Ian Wood and his view, Scottish Independence: Sir Ian Wood says inflated oil forecasts are an 'insult' - Energy Voice

It only goes to reinforce my previous question, are wee eck and co financially stark, staring, raving, bonkers MAD!!?
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 5:13 pm
  #105  
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Thumbs down Re: Scottish Independence

Oh dear, brb off to find some links I saw the other day.

I just posted this though elsewhere


“Greater Clair proves there is still a long future for oil and gas production in the North Sea and will give confidence to new recruits that the industry offers a career for life.”

This is currently on the BP website, the same people who just came out and said it's running out.
You can also google their video on the Clair field.
I think the refer to Clair as one of the truely massive oil fields and oh they have only just started production
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