shiva

Let's just hope that interest remains regardless of outcome on both sides of the borde. Our demcracy is well on the way to being broken and an engaged electorate is the best way to fix that.

Democracy only works when people know what's going on and make demands of their elected representatives. When only half a country votes in an election and then just mildly whinges between elections we give our politicians freedom to do as they see fit not what we elect them to do.

Just look at how many demonstrably crooked politicians get re elected.

God help my local mp when I go home, living with no voice has given me a taste for becoming that annoying asshole who'll turn up at an mp's surgery and demand to know why they are an idiot.
I've already got an email war ( I say war it's more of a one way onslaught these days) going on with dumfries council about road repairs at home and have managed to get half of a road repaired in the last year. The tone of emails I now get back has gone from dismissal to obvious resignation to the fact I won't let the issue go. A small community in a semi remote glen for the first time in 20 plus years now has a serviceable road that doesn't destroy everyone's suspension every two years. A small victory but I'm happy with it

Dumbo

Personally I will be happy for Scotland to do whatever they want. I hope they stay part of the UK, but if they want out, so be it. As long as the split is fair to both sides on issues such as national debt. If they go their own way hopefully the Bank of England will also refuse to prop up the currency if Scotland chooses the 'pound'.

But my real concern is who will bail them out in 2 - 5 years once Salmond and his cronies have siphoned off all the money to them and theirs. It won't be Europe.

What will the real Scots affected by this decision (not those earning a fortune in foreign countries) think in a few months time when their taxes are rising, property prices are falling and there is little investment in the places where they live. Will that still be Westminsters fault?

From a selfish perspective I can see benefits if there is a split, arse falling out of the pound, property prices plummeting, unfortunately for the people not living in a foreign country the repercussions of a split could be disastrous. Whilst people may think they know exactly what will happen, the full effects will be many and varied and impossible to forsee.

Having said all that its not an Englishmans decision to make and I respect whatever choice an individual Scot makes. I just hope this is not just about getting one over on Westminster and London which is what it seems like in the last few days.

BTW did anyone see the article about Boris Johnson? He intends to hold a self referendum to decide whether he will declare himself as an independent country in 2017:

Boris Johnson To Hold A Referendum On Becoming An Independent Country

shiva

Just to clarify, Scotland will not become independent on Friday. The date has been proposed for March 2016 but has obviously yet to be clarified.

Salmond may not win a Scottish general election which is what this is all about. Labour if they sort their shit out are far more likely to win.

There is already a lack of investment and has been for some time, hence the diss affectation with the current state of affairs house prices are similarly non reflective of the picture down south

The one over on Westminster view is a largely media construct.

Dumbo

Didn't I just read that per head of population Scotland recieve more than England and Wales? >10k for Scotland and about 8.5k for England. The Barnett formula its called.

Salmond wants to get his grubby hands on some oil money, he is not thinking about the future of Scots, if he did for 5 minutes he would see that the potential risks far outway the potential benefits.

My understanding is that Scotland would have some almost immediate powers, including the ability to adjust its tax rates upto 10p in the pound, whilst still receiving the funding from the treasury based on the above formula.

shiva

Yes more powers are timetabled but these are not guaranteed and at any moment the scottish parliament can be disbanded by westminster for any reason it sees fit.

The right to self determination is written into the UN Charter and Declaration of Human Rights, it is a right now well accepted as reasonable and beyond question in most countries outside of the totalitarian states.
Piecemeal powers are not that right especially when they have no legal guarentee

Dumbo

Like I said in my first post, where I laid out concerns that you haven't addressed because it doesn't suit your agenda, I respect the decision whatever Scots decide to do. I just hope its for the right reasons and I hope that if it fails and the money gets spunked away that the rest of the UK doesn't end up footing the bill.

Millhouse

I wonder if England can stuff them with RBS.

Dumbo

Not sure about that, but how about we apply the same weightage per head of population from the Barnett formula to the national debt.

I see that the Shetlands, Orkney and Outer Hebrides would want a referendum on independence from an independent Scotland.

Ethos82

Well, tomorrow may be the last day of the United Kingdom as we know it.

The referendum does seem to represent the best of democracy: a huge vote turnout, spirited and informative campaigning and everyone deeply involved the future of their country.

And it also represents the worst of democracy: a deeply divided country, families and friends ripped apart, extraordinarily aggressive campaigning and bullying, deliberate obfuscation of information, ugly nationalism, and whatever the results there will be an enormous and embittered minority that will feel permanently marginalised.

Good luck, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You'll need it.

Bahtatboy

I know what you're saying and that my voice is too late, but I still find it hugely iniquitous that 4 million British people (plus a fair number of foreigners) should have the opportunity to deeply affect the future of 62 million British people.

shiva

That feeling is why more than a few will vote yes.

58 million other people currently decide on scotlands future not the 5 that live there

Neither is fair

Bahtatboy

I know what you mean, but the same goes for every county or region in England. Are Scots really so different?

shiva

As a people no

But we fortunately are in a different legal boat and can force a referendum much more easily or in fact if the snp get a significant majority at a general election can pretty much unilaterally dissolve the union.

I agree absolutely that their should be more regional representation in England but you'll need to put the structure in place first.

The welsh were ****ed as they were annexed but the have a devolved parliament so if need to do some research as to their rights

The Irish don't even know what they want so that's not a worry for a while and since they can't even keep their own parliament open long enough to do anything undoubtably it's not an issue that will arise quickly

Inselaffen

Pity they won't offer that right to the islands

shiva

Probably not but they should