Nuclear Madness
Oct 21st 2013, 7:06 pm
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Windscale....
Posts: 5,712
Re: Nuclear Madness
I think the UK should not allow foreign investment in critical sectors like nuclear energy and water. I am not against nuclear power but this doesn't seem sensible as it will raise the cost to consumers massively. It could be done cheaper I am sure...the whole of idea of nuclear is long term power at an affordable price isn't it?
I think we should look at carbon capture tech and utilise some of our coal reserves alongside whatever else we do.
Meanwhile more government madness has our next generation of aircraft carriers being powered by diesel...completely stupid for a large military vessel and most of the Navy seem to be against the idea but they are 'cutting costs' which is fine now but when petroleum is high will they use rubbing alcohol and meths to get our ships running?
N.
I think we should look at carbon capture tech and utilise some of our coal reserves alongside whatever else we do.
Meanwhile more government madness has our next generation of aircraft carriers being powered by diesel...completely stupid for a large military vessel and most of the Navy seem to be against the idea but they are 'cutting costs' which is fine now but when petroleum is high will they use rubbing alcohol and meths to get our ships running?
N.
Oct 22nd 2013, 4:51 am
#17
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: Nuclear Madness
Meh, why not?
The UK is going to be in trouble if it doesn't get more leccy on the grid. The 'double current market price' is true today but that price doesn't start coming until the plant is operational in a decade. What will the market price be in a decade?
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned HS2 yet and how that money could be spent.
EDF have struck a deal that apparently makes them 10% margin, that's not particularly offensive at all, especially if they HAVE carefully considered the decommissioning costs properly.
The Chinese have 19 Nuclear plants and are building another 30 odd or something, they probably know more about this shit than we do....although they are still not to be trusted.
The UK is going to be in trouble if it doesn't get more leccy on the grid. The 'double current market price' is true today but that price doesn't start coming until the plant is operational in a decade. What will the market price be in a decade?
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned HS2 yet and how that money could be spent.
EDF have struck a deal that apparently makes them 10% margin, that's not particularly offensive at all, especially if they HAVE carefully considered the decommissioning costs properly.
The Chinese have 19 Nuclear plants and are building another 30 odd or something, they probably know more about this shit than we do....although they are still not to be trusted.
Oct 22nd 2013, 6:26 am
#18
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,094
Re: Nuclear Madness
So we sell the utilities to put them in the hands of the public and 25 years later we're being held to ransom by the Chinese Communist Party and our dear old friends the French, nice one Maggie
Oct 22nd 2013, 7:14 am
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Disneyland, Dubai
Posts: 15,887
Re: Nuclear Madness
The costs will be high compared to fossil fuels. That's why the world is addicted to fossil fuels. Renewables are not exactly cheap (or that useful) either. The biggest issue with renewables is the associated grid investments. When the wind blows a massive amount of power suddenly surges on to the grid - you can't look at the cost of the turbines in isolation.
I really have mixed views on nuclear. On balance, we should probably go for it for the base-load power and post the waste to a random chinese address in an unmarked container.
Oct 22nd 2013, 7:40 am
#20
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,370
Re: Nuclear Madness
A great deal of this stupidity is based on the fact that conservatives will never forgive the NUM for pushing the limits in 1974 and 1984-5, Coal makes sense but is unacceptable to Cameron and company. Much better to let the uncertainty of China and France ***** things up and have the consumers up against a brick wall.
Might do it better than us
N.
Oct 22nd 2013, 7:49 am
#21
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13,547
Re: Nuclear Madness
playing with an old Russian aircraft carrier!
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:19 am
#22
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,094
Re: Nuclear Madness
I hope you're right but to bring it right down to a basic level I had to plead with my mother in law to turn her heating on last winter, no pensioner in Britain should have to worry about that
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:20 am
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,094
Re: Nuclear Madness
without a doubt, all the parties involved have learned a lot in China, Finland and France, Hinckley should be a piece of piss for them !
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:40 am
#24
Nothing doin' here
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,508
Re: Nuclear Madness
Just to lighten the mood....
Just to spite British Gas, if I die of hypothermia this winter I've arranged to be buried rather than cremated.
Just to spite British Gas, if I die of hypothermia this winter I've arranged to be buried rather than cremated.
Oct 22nd 2013, 7:55 pm
#25
MODERATOR
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6,370
Re: Nuclear Madness
Everyone starts somewhere...and they will be making their own. What's wrong with looking at how others do it before trying it yourself?
Given we'll have a diesel powered fleet in the future that will be limited to where it can get fuel (which will probably be ridiculously expensive and polluting) I don't think we can say much about the PRC Navy...our politicians have ruined the Royal Navy in size and soon in quality of kit.
N.
Given we'll have a diesel powered fleet in the future that will be limited to where it can get fuel (which will probably be ridiculously expensive and polluting) I don't think we can say much about the PRC Navy...our politicians have ruined the Royal Navy in size and soon in quality of kit.
N.
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:10 pm
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,641
Re: Nuclear Madness
Meh, why not?
The UK is going to be in trouble if it doesn't get more leccy on the grid. The 'double current market price' is true today but that price doesn't start coming until the plant is operational in a decade. What will the market price be in a decade?
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned HS2 yet and how that money could be spent.
EDF have struck a deal that apparently makes them 10% margin, that's not particularly offensive at all, especially if they HAVE carefully considered the decommissioning costs properly.
The Chinese have 19 Nuclear plants and are building another 30 odd or something, they probably know more about this shit than we do....although they are still not to be trusted.
The UK is going to be in trouble if it doesn't get more leccy on the grid. The 'double current market price' is true today but that price doesn't start coming until the plant is operational in a decade. What will the market price be in a decade?
I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned HS2 yet and how that money could be spent.
EDF have struck a deal that apparently makes them 10% margin, that's not particularly offensive at all, especially if they HAVE carefully considered the decommissioning costs properly.
The Chinese have 19 Nuclear plants and are building another 30 odd or something, they probably know more about this shit than we do....although they are still not to be trusted.
So from a comptency standpoint I would think Western firms have the best technology and operational expereince. It will most likely be operated by Brits but how much veto power will the Chinese have over procuring equipment, safety and enviromental suggestons??
Oct 23rd 2013, 5:08 am
#27
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: Nuclear Madness
Westinghouse sold 3 or 4 Nuclear reactors to the Chinese a few years back. No doubt there are also a lot of Western and or Russian techs who guided the Chinese through from construction to operation.
So from a comptency standpoint I would think Western firms have the best technology and operational expereince. It will most likely be operated by Brits but how much veto power will the Chinese have over procuring equipment, safety and enviromental suggestons??
So from a comptency standpoint I would think Western firms have the best technology and operational expereince. It will most likely be operated by Brits but how much veto power will the Chinese have over procuring equipment, safety and enviromental suggestons??
We'll just have to cross our fingers that EDF take a lead role in this. As unlikely as that sounds.
Nov 7th 2013, 1:39 pm
#28
Hit 16's
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine
Posts: 13,112
Re: Nuclear Madness
Switching hobby horses for the moment...
Clean-up costs for Fukushima estimated at $50-100 billion (not that anyone seems to be doing any real estimating). And that's without compensation.
An island of (potentially contaminated) debris the size of Texas approaching the US's east coast.
Starfish disintegrating (ok, nobody's proved a link. Yet.).
Scotland produced 38% of its energy by renewables last year (ok, that's 38% of not so much, but still).
And we're set to build a plant costing 4-6x what a conventional plant would cost. And its uninsurable, so if it goes pop we pay again (if we're still there).
Seriously?
Clean-up costs for Fukushima estimated at $50-100 billion (not that anyone seems to be doing any real estimating). And that's without compensation.
An island of (potentially contaminated) debris the size of Texas approaching the US's east coast.
Starfish disintegrating (ok, nobody's proved a link. Yet.).
Scotland produced 38% of its energy by renewables last year (ok, that's 38% of not so much, but still).
And we're set to build a plant costing 4-6x what a conventional plant would cost. And its uninsurable, so if it goes pop we pay again (if we're still there).
Seriously?
Nov 8th 2013, 2:09 am
#29
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
Re: Nuclear Madness
Switching hobby horses for the moment...
Clean-up costs for Fukushima estimated at $50-100 billion (not that anyone seems to be doing any real estimating). And that's without compensation.
An island of (potentially contaminated) debris the size of Texas approaching the US's east coast.
Starfish disintegrating (ok, nobody's proved a link. Yet.).
Scotland produced 38% of its energy by renewables last year (ok, that's 38% of not so much, but still).
And we're set to build a plant costing 4-6x what a conventional plant would cost. And its uninsurable, so if it goes pop we pay again (if we're still there).
Seriously?
Clean-up costs for Fukushima estimated at $50-100 billion (not that anyone seems to be doing any real estimating). And that's without compensation.
An island of (potentially contaminated) debris the size of Texas approaching the US's east coast.
Starfish disintegrating (ok, nobody's proved a link. Yet.).
Scotland produced 38% of its energy by renewables last year (ok, that's 38% of not so much, but still).
And we're set to build a plant costing 4-6x what a conventional plant would cost. And its uninsurable, so if it goes pop we pay again (if we're still there).
Seriously?
The country will pay way over the odds for construction, no doubt be plagued by fines and penalties for late delivery and shoddy running with possible small leaks and safety violation then burdened with absolutely massive decommission costs and a waste product that remain hazardous for longer than man has existed.
It's utter madness. Spend half the money on conventional plants and the other half on power storage technology for renewables.
Decommissioning and upgrading wind turbines for example for 20 years would probably costs less than building a tenth of a nuclear plant.
It really does make no sense to build a new nuclear plant particularly when it wil be owned and managed by non uk companies
Nov 14th 2013, 1:57 am
#30
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,241
Re: Nuclear Madness
Weren’t we going to build some nuclear reactors and then operate them on the sea bed or underground? The Swiss did it in a cave and made it melty by accident, they sealed the cave and everyone lived happily ever after.
Like any engineering project: Cheap, quick or good…pick any two.
Like any engineering project: Cheap, quick or good…pick any two.