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Old Sep 7th 2017, 5:06 am   #76
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
And yet in all the post-Brexit elections in EU countries the pro-EU parties have out-performed expectations and their previous votes. Pro-EU sentiment has gone up across most of the EU in polls taken since Brexit. From all the conversations I'm having, most Europeans can't believe the mess that the UK has got itself into. However frustrated they might have been by aspects of EU [email protected]@k-wittery, they are not about to follow this shambolic jalopy over the cliff.

If the UK somehow prospers after Brexit then of course that sentiment might change. But we are still waiting for any specific scenario about how that could happen. Maybe everyone will feel high or something after eating all that chlorinated chicken?
I think some are watching with great interest, to see exactly what happens, as this is a blue print for any that wish to give the EU two fingers as well. The sudden surge of right wing nationalism was recognised for what it was, outright racism. If they had not taken such a right wing stance I think the said elections would have had a lot different outcome, even the Germans are now sick of the enforced immigration!

A very interesting couple of years ahead, and I believe that we will not be on our own in leaving the failed experiment that the EU has become in federalism!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 5:53 am   #77
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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A very interesting couple of years ahead, and I believe that we will not be on our own in leaving the failed experiment that the EU has become in federalism!
You keep throwing in these kind of opinions as if they are facts or have you canvassed the population of the EU? Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 6:07 am   #78
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
You keep throwing in these kind of opinions as if they are facts or have you canvassed the population of the EU? Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so.
You can say similar about pretty much every discussion on the subject....

Remainers saying its a shit show even though essentially nothing has happened as of yet.... the leavers saying the EU is a dead duck and everyone with abandon the sinking ship after Brexit. Personally I keep out of the discussions these days as they just go round and round in circles.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 6:22 am   #79
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
You keep throwing in these kind of opinions as if they are facts or have you canvassed the population of the EU? Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so.

Yes they are my opinions, which I clearly stated....you are the one that is somehow convinced that I am stating facts, I am far from being an expert on the matter I assure you and have never represented myself that way either!!

It is a discussion board, well it was the last time I looked, so I will carry on in my own way expressing my opinion...if you or others want to turn it into something bigger or take offense that I have an opinion tough tit!!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 6:25 am   #80
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
You can say similar about pretty much every discussion on the subject....

Remainers saying its a shit show even though essentially nothing has happened as of yet.... the leavers saying the EU is a dead duck and everyone with abandon the sinking ship after Brexit. Personally I keep out of the discussions these days as they just go round and round in circles.
Could not agree more, damned if you do and damned if you don`t.....god help free thought and discussion, it has been abandoned to do as we do or else, by both sides usually in a fit of hysteria!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 8:26 am   #81
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Or maybe the UK won't allow imports of chlorinated chicken in from the US (as they stopped our beef), but if the EU wants to allow it the UK currently has no say, we have to allow the EU to poison us.
A perfect encapsulation of the nonsense and misinformation that led us to Brexit!!

All external treaties by the EU have to be ratified by all member governments - that includes trade. Remember the fuss caused about the trade agreement with Canada last year that was held up by the Wallonia regional parliament for example? This idea that the EU is some faceless nameless bureaucratic monolith is actually nonsense. It is a club of members and like any such club, the members have to agree all of the rule changes - some rules can now be decided by majority but nothing fundamental. Of course there is a bureaucracy to administer the rules but guess what: that's also made up of citizens of the member states including plenty of Brits, many in prominent and influential roles.

After Brexit the UK will certainly have no say in the club rules. And unless the UK government is committed to economic hare-kiri, there will be some kind of post-Brexit trade agreement with the EU a la the EEA or EFTA, or, the latest proposed model (which perhaps starkly illustrates the new world stature of the UK): Andorra. In this case the UK WILL be bound by EU trade agreements while having absolutely no input into their establishment.

Therefore the horrible circumstance you describe only comes into place exactly BECAUSE of Brexit. Well done! Well done!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 8:48 am   #82
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by Dubaiexile View Post
Yes they are my opinions, which I clearly stated....you are the one that is somehow convinced that I am stating facts, I am far from being an expert on the matter I assure you and have never represented myself that way either!!

It is a discussion board, well it was the last time I looked, so I will carry on in my own way expressing my opinion...if you or others want to turn it into something bigger or take offense that I have an opinion tough tit!!
I'm not offended in the least I'm just pointing out that these are being presented as statements of fact.

You mentioned you believed that others will leave, which is an opinion of course but that they are leaving a failed experiment which is a statement.

Anyhow I assume the emotive terms are in order to get a bite and I guess I have bitten
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 8:51 am   #83
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by jam25mack View Post
You can say similar about pretty much every discussion on the subject....

Remainers saying its a shit show even though essentially nothing has happened as of yet.... the leavers saying the EU is a dead duck and everyone with abandon the sinking ship after Brexit. Personally I keep out of the discussions these days as they just go round and round in circles.
Very true, I'm not pro or against Brexit. I was just pointing out that colourful or emotive type of description.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 9:01 am   #84
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
Or maybe the UK won't allow imports of chlorinated chicken in from the US (as they stopped our beef), but if the EU wants to allow it the UK currently has no say, we have to allow the EU to poison us.
From the country which brought us mad cow disease and foot and mouth epidemics!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 9:33 am   #85
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by IKnowNothing View Post
Or maybe the UK won't allow imports of chlorinated chicken in from the US (as they stopped our beef), but if the EU wants to allow it the UK currently has no say, we have to allow the EU to poison us.
As Miss Ann Thrope has pointed out, that's utter nonsense - and yet you clearly believe it. Why aren't you interested in finding out how the EU actually works?
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 9:36 am   #86
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
I'm not offended in the least I'm just pointing out that these are being presented as statements of fact.

You mentioned you believed that others will leave, which is an opinion of course but that they are leaving a failed experiment which is a statement.

Anyhow I assume the emotive terms are in order to get a bite and I guess I have bitten
I think the use of throwaway contentions like "failed experiment" is very characteristic of much of the Brexit argument (and indeed of Putinesque/Trumpian disinformation campaigns). It's a silly contention that simply does not stand up to any analysis: if the 60+ year old EU has failed then why has no party advocating leaving the EU come anywhere close to power in any of the other member states ever? And in fact the few that exist at all have retreated in recent elections across the EU. There are plenty of parties in power with dubious positions on governance and democracy who want to change a lot about the EU, like Jobbik in Hungary or Law & Justice in Poland. But not even the French NF want to leave the EU.

I'm clearly not neutral but there is definitely one side of the argument that has largely abandoned fact for fantasy. I really really really would like to hear a scenario outlined with reasonable specificity about how the UK can prosper post-Brexit. But nobody has said anything plausible yet that comes close. Vague notions of being "free to do trade deals and control our borders" tells me nothing about how even a fraction of the UK's current trade with the EU is going to be replaced.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:56 am   #87
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
I'm not offended in the least I'm just pointing out that these are being presented as statements of fact.

You mentioned you believed that others will leave, which is an opinion of course but that they are leaving a failed experiment which is a statement.

Anyhow I assume the emotive terms are in order to get a bite and I guess I have bitten
I guess I was stating my opinion...which is a statement!!

And yes you did bite
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 4:23 pm   #88
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by weasel decentral View Post
From the country which brought us mad cow disease and foot and mouth epidemics!
You forgot the salmonella eggs, the self igniting appliances and the flammable cladding.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 5:35 pm   #89
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by Miss Ann Thrope View Post
Blah
Let's have a beer and a proper discussion....

Loca?
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 6:51 pm   #90
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

Nah, rum ZZZZzzzzzzz
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