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Old Sep 5th 2017, 9:58 pm   #46
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

So who do you believe? There is so much conflicting news. Just like the information given out pre-Brexit.

"But he suggested Britain could "look at" introducing some sort of special visa for Commonwealth countries." Is this really what Brexit was about. Swapping one lot of immigrants with another lot of immigrants?
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:14 pm   #47
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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So who do you believe? There is so much conflicting news. Just like the information given out pre-Brexit.
Problem is with the 'news' is so much is slewed towards the editorial line of the particular publication. The Guardian has little good to say about Brexit, The Daily Telegraph is not a great fan of the EU. Whilst I do read opinion pieces I tend to do my own research. When you do you realise that both sides are talking out of their bottoms simply because the 24 hour news cycle means they have column inches to fill whether there is anything to report on or not. You also start to realise that very few journalists know very much about the subject on which they are asked to write. This goes for most topics, not just Brexit.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:23 pm   #48
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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"But he suggested Britain could "look at" introducing some sort of special visa for Commonwealth countries." Is this really what Brexit was about. Swapping one lot of immigrants with another lot of immigrants?
We could do that now anyway. We choose not to. We could change our minds if we wanted to. The most interesting proposal I've seen so far on the topic is a CANZUK deal, similar to what exists between Australia and New Zealand, but expanded to include Canada and the UK. If the Conservative Party wants to attract younger voters post-Brexit then they could do worse than negotiate a freedom of movement style deal between the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It certainly has more support amongst the general electorate than EU freedom of movement.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:26 pm   #49
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Problem is with the 'news' is so much is slewed towards the editorial line of the particular publication. The Guardian has little good to say about Brexit, The Daily Telegraph is not a great fan of the EU. Whilst I do read opinion pieces I tend to do my own research. When you do you realise that both sides are talking out of their bottoms simply because the 24 hour news cycle means they have column inches to fill whether there is anything to report on or not. You also start to realise that very few journalists know very much about the subject on which they are asked to write. This goes for most topics, not just Brexit.
This just means that Guardian readers will tend to vote against anything Brexit, Telegraph readers will vote anti-EU.

I guess news media has always been this way. In my adult lifetime it has not impacted my life much until the recent year or so. I was not reading newspapers when the UK joined the EU. Also there was not a 24 hour news cycle from multiple outlets.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:28 pm   #50
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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We could do that now anyway. We choose not to. We could change our minds if we wanted to. The most interesting proposal I've seen so far on the topic is a CANZUK deal, similar to what exists between Australia and New Zealand, but expanded to include Canada and the UK. If the Conservative Party wants to attract younger voters post-Brexit then they could do worse than negotiate a freedom of movement style deal between the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It certainly has more support amongst the general electorate than EU freedom of movement.
It was my understanding that the young voters were anti-Brexit and wanted the opportunity to work in overseas. It might be good to go back to the old ways were everyone you trade with speaks English. If not you just colonize the country.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:36 pm   #51
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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This just means that Guardian readers will tend to vote against anything Brexit, Telegraph readers will vote anti-EU.

I guess news media has always been this way. In my adult lifetime it has not impacted my life much until the recent year or so. I was not reading newspapers when the UK joined the EU. Also there was not a 24 hour news cycle from multiple outlets.
Newspapers in the UK certainly have had an editorial line. But the drop in circulation combined with rise of the internet and social media in particular have ratcheted it this effect to the point of parody as newspapers try to complete with endless clickbait articles produced for circulation on Facebook and Twitter.

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It was my understanding that the young voters were anti-Brexit and wanted the opportunity to work in overseas. It might be good to go back to the old ways were everyone you trade with speaks English. If not you just colonize the country.
And to think for a moment there I thought we might get a reasonable discussion going
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:40 pm   #52
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Newspapers in the UK certainly have had an editorial line. But the drop in circulation combined with rise of the internet and social media in particular have ratcheted it this effect to the point of parody as newspapers try to complete with endless clickbait articles produced for circulation on Facebook and Twitter.
This is the new age, the population's opinions are not decided by hard facts, but by click bait or essentially marketing on a large scale. US politics has been this way for a long time. To my knowledge, this is fairly new in Europe. A bit different to the old party political broadcasts.

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And to think for a moment there I thought we might get a reasonable discussion going
This was a little bit of provocation and , however some people may see it that way.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 10:54 pm   #53
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
This is the new age, the population's opinions are not decided by hard facts, but by click bait or essentially marketing on a large scale. US politics has been this way for a long time. To my knowledge, this is fairly new in Europe. A bit different to the old party political broadcasts.
The dominance of partisan TV networks is certainly a feature of US politics whereas their newspapers tend to be more sober-sided. The reverse is true for the UK.

Quote:
This was a little bit of provocation and , however some people may see it that way.
Don't worry, I did realise you were only on a windup. Back on topic, for every Brit who is keen to live and work in the EU there will be at least two or three more who would prefer to live and work in Canada, New Zealand or Australia and you're right, it's do with the ease of communication and common cultural background. The same number of Britons live elsewhere in the EU, with a population of 445 million, as they do in Australia, with a population of 24 million. Britons are the largest foreign-born population in both Canada and New Zealand.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 11:03 pm   #54
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

I think, you will probably correct me, it was easier for a while to emigrate to Australia than it was to a lot of European countries. I am talking pre-1970.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 3:36 am   #55
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

Everyone queries the damage that will be done to our market on a hard Brexit, what would be the cause and effect to European countries if we decided that we did not want German Cars, French wine etc etc?

Also could it not be argued that we became lazy in our export market by concentrating to much on the EU market, and that this might be a good thing given that the EU trade as a percentage of world trade is not that large...new markets, new products, innovation...perhaps we could become a trading nation again!

Also as we would be free of some of the ridiculous rules and regulations that have been enforced on us, that alone would make us more competitive in the new markets we seek as compared to the EU States?

I personally believe that the EU negotiators are pursuing a spiteful , vindictive Brexit at the behest of there political masters, they do not like us and have never liked what they perceive as the special treatment we have allegedly received during our tenure in this failed experiment!
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 4:31 am   #56
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

Since when did everyone want French cars? German , maybe. However Lotus, TVR, Morgan, Aston Martin , I don't really class as European cars. In my time everyone drove either a Ford or a Vauxhall.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 5:52 am   #57
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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Since when did everyone want French cars? German , maybe. However Lotus, TVR, Morgan, Aston Martin , I don't really class as European cars. In my time everyone drove either a Ford or a Vauxhall.
Nissan, Honda and Mini (BMW) are the largest UK manufacturers now.

Oh the irony.
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 7:13 am   #58
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Nissan, Honda and Mini (BMW) are the largest UK manufacturers now.

Oh the irony.
Yes, and how do you think they are going to fare post-Brexit?

A 15% tariff is unlikely to make a huge difference to BMW or Mercedes sellers and buyers in Colchester. But to Nissan buyers in Grenoble????
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 7:16 am   #59
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Default Re: Brexit Negotiations

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New agreements? Off the top of my head: United States, Japan, Australia, New Zealand.
For what? What exactly is the UK going to be able to sell in huge additional quantities into any of those markets? In return for basically destroying British agriculture...
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 8:09 am   #60
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For what? What exactly is the UK going to be able to sell in huge additional quantities into any of those markets? In return for basically destroying British agriculture...
Jam, biscuits and teapots in the shape of Big Ben...
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