mikelincs

So you are one of those that follow certain celebrities, does that mean that if he said all those British Citizens currently living outside the UK will have all benefits stopped, and their passports revoked, you would think it was OK, jist because he said it.
You are a thinking adult, make your own mind up, forget about these publicity seeking idiots who will change their minds if the wind blows from a different direction.
My mind has always been to stay in, and nothing these people in Parliament can and will say will change the way I will vote.

Millhouse

I'm both.

Eeyore

They are? You've already forgotten the fracas between the CBI and Vote Leave late last year?

While it's inevitable that many companies that do most/all of their trade with Europe will prefer to be in, there are plenty of others that would vastly prefer not to be bound by EU legislation in respect of things like workers' rights, and the major media conglomerates publishing most national newspapers will be among them, which is partly why they'll be so keen to push the exit agenda.

Well, it's lots of standard Brexit boilerplate wrapped in the usual "patriotic" kapok. What it doesn't do, of course, is offer anything approaching an honest assessment of the pros and cons of EU membership and peddles a few of the obligatory anti-EU myths for good measure.

Gove represents some deeply unpleasant people whose real interest in being unshackled from EU regulation is nothing whatsoever to do with making life better for the average British person.

Millhouse

If you bothered to actually read it, you will see that I have not declared by position. I'm stating how I think it will go based on how i think people will vote given the media and the various positions taken by certain people.

For me the decision is too tight to tell. I'd probably vote out as I do not believe in one-policy fits all approaches. Leaving the EU could either destroy my industry or make for an amazing opportunity. I suspect the latter.

co durham boy

I believe they'll get an in result but by a very tight margin . I'd vote out without a doubt . I believe Brussels and a Federal Europe is a direct conflict to democracy and European nations are so so different , it is an impossibility to lump them into a one size fits all.

iggle

As it stands

Yes 27 Votes out of 41 (65%)
No 14 Votes out of 41 (35%)

Very one sided.

IKnowNothing

Interestingly the poison dwarf that is nichola sturgeon has come out with, if the UK decides to leave the EU that will force another referendum in scotland on independence.

So, will the pro-independence lot vote leave to force another referendum?

Or are the scots not that canny?

Inselaffen

would love to see her figures based on oil at 33 bucks a barrel!

Eeyore

It makes sense, and this isn't a new development either, it was being discussed way before the last referendum. If Scotland votes overwhelmingly to stay in the EU (which it very likely will), but the overall result is to leave, then Sturgeon would have a clear mandate to demand another referendum - not least because Scotland's interests almost certainly *would* be best served by staying in.

tintriangle

Thanks for the information Eeyore. I did not think I was swayed by patriotic rhetoric and did credit myself with sufficient nouse to be able spot myth peddlers, but I am always happy to learn. More importantly - who are these people that Gove represents? I am thinking you may mean big business and the idea that they resent EU employment law and you may have a point.

As I said in my post, please point me at a stayer with as good a summary position.

My insufficiently informed (at present) position is that the EU is already finished and that regardless of whether the UK stays or goes, it will break up and reform in short order with a proper union of equals comprising four maybe five adjacent continental partners: a UK exit may precipitate this change and not just because the budget shortfall arising from losing the UK's net contribution position would be difficult to sustain.

The UK might be better served saving its contributions to the current unsustainable social club and work instead towards forming a proper trading partnership that the original Common Market the UK joined in 1975 was supposed to be.

This is an immensely complex problem that I am I sure I am not yet qualified to make a properly reasoned decision upon, and due to its complexity and a lack of objective and yes, probably simplified, facts and data I may well never be.

And it is a worry that come 23 June 2016 us voters may be unduly influenced by he/she who shouts loudest - and that generally means the best financed.

Meow

What happened to the theory of the United Europe as a powerhouse to challenge the US?

I suspect that one of the main reasons many want to leave is the European parliament and all the foolish waste there. (Two main offices as countries wouldn't agree where it should be permanently situated is ridiculous.) That and the "little England" mentality of many. (With apology to the Scots and Welsh for the phrasing but you know what I mean.) The idea behind it all is not just trading but that European union (deliberate lower case) was supposed to prevent extreme nationalism.

It's far from ideal but I am still in favour of the concept.

Millhouse

The issue is that you are asking expats. It's not in anyway a representative sample. It'll be close on the day.

Not forgetting that turn-out will be around 25% as fundamentally no one gives a toss (or understands what they are voting for) and it won't change anything for the common man.

Meow

All true. Besides the politics of this forum seems to be rather right of centre for just about everything which would drag the responses more to the pro-exit vote.

People will vote to leave as they don't like the French/Germans/insert country as applicable. Logic or knowledge has so little to do with any political vote. You only need to look at the USA to see that.

Millhouse

It remained just that - a theory.

Look at what's happened since 2008. EU block has stagnated, the US machine restarted itself and is powering ahead. The EU simply can't complete due to old laws, aging populations and generally poor coordination. To think the EU state would work is a pipe-dream that overlooks so many fundamentals and cultural differences.

The best thing the UK could do with EU freedom is put its net contribution to work and build some decent infrastructure, de-regulated financial services further and give tax incentives to tech industries. What will actually happen of course is a larger "investment" into the NHS blackhole.

Millhouse

I also look forward to having Australians manning the pumps in the bars in London again and not eastern Europeans.