Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
Feb 24th 2013, 1:18 pm
#61
**** it we'll do it live
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,892
Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
That wasn't the point. The point was that there is no reason to reject Christian morality as even most of the atheists are following it almost to the letter.
One can argue whether the notion of sinless conception is silly or whether it is possible to raise from the grave. These are trivial matters most likely invented or blown out of proportion while re-telling the tales. One can argue about the fallibility and shortcomings of the Church, any organisation manned by humans is fallible and imperfect even though many claim otherwise. However, few points will remain:
1. the existence of a supreme deity has not been proven nor dis-proven. many tried, nobody succeeded.
2. i do not believe that you or anyone else have enough evidence to come to a definite conclusion in relation to sources / mechanisms of human spirituality and matters of after-life. you have beliefs in this respect which are equal to other beliefs in relation to availability of scientific proof.
3. there is nothing wrong with Christian morals preached today. There is ample evidence that destruction of many traditional values is hurting the society. Many values are being adhered to by most.
Mind you, I am a rational guy, Christian by tradition but not by practice (except in certain family traditions and morals). I believe my assessment is rational and hard to flaw.
One can argue whether the notion of sinless conception is silly or whether it is possible to raise from the grave. These are trivial matters most likely invented or blown out of proportion while re-telling the tales. One can argue about the fallibility and shortcomings of the Church, any organisation manned by humans is fallible and imperfect even though many claim otherwise. However, few points will remain:
1. the existence of a supreme deity has not been proven nor dis-proven. many tried, nobody succeeded.
2. i do not believe that you or anyone else have enough evidence to come to a definite conclusion in relation to sources / mechanisms of human spirituality and matters of after-life. you have beliefs in this respect which are equal to other beliefs in relation to availability of scientific proof.
3. there is nothing wrong with Christian morals preached today. There is ample evidence that destruction of many traditional values is hurting the society. Many values are being adhered to by most.
Mind you, I am a rational guy, Christian by tradition but not by practice (except in certain family traditions and morals). I believe my assessment is rational and hard to flaw.
Surely the burden should be on proof of god not his glaring absense for the last few millennia. Apart from anything else I'd like to know where god was between the evolution of man around 100,000 years ago and when he turned up at the earliest 12,000 years ago for most modern religions around 2,000 years ago. That's a long time to be AWOL. #justcurious
Feb 24th 2013, 1:20 pm
#62
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
Feb 24th 2013, 1:20 pm
#63
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
This is legal interpretation, not necessarily matching the metaphysical reality. Cavemen didn't have a clue about uranium and yet it did exist.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:21 pm
#64
Knee deep and rising
Joined: Sep 2011
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
3. there is nothing wrong with Christian morals preached today. There is ample evidence that destruction of many traditional values is hurting the society. Many values are being adhered to by most.
Mind you, I am a rational guy, Christian by tradition but not by practice (except in certain family traditions and morals). I believe my assessment is rational and hard to flaw.
If you grew up with the flying spaghetti monster as your god you would similarly expound whatever values he had.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:23 pm
#66
Bored liberal
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Over there ----->
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
That is not even an argument! It's not a legal interpretation, it's factual and logical. Your comment is ridiculous.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:29 pm
#68
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
We are moral arbiters for ourselves. For the rest there is laws and democratic process of bringing laws to life and we make sure our morals get through into real life. Surely you are a moral arbiter too, otherwise you don't believe in your own morals.
Because you have no answer to it - it does not make it ridiculous.
Because you have no answer to it - it does not make it ridiculous.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:34 pm
#70
Bored liberal
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
We are moral arbiters for ourselves. For the rest there is laws and democratic process of bringing laws to life and we make sure our morals get through into real life. Surely you are a moral arbiter too, otherwise you don't believe in your own morals.
Because you have no answer to it - it does not make it ridiculous.
Because you have no answer to it - it does not make it ridiculous.
You don't seen to fully understand the expression 'moral arbiter' and the general understanding of it as used in my previous post. We all should be responsible for our own actions, but certain groups hold themselves up as the guardians for the behaviour of others, whether wanted to not. That's exactly what organised religion does.
All this proves it is that it is impossible to debate with religious folk as they blindly accept the tenets of their faith and are unable to provide any evidence as to why they are right and everyone else is wrong.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:38 pm
#72
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
Is it not coincidence that being a good chap is similar to being a good Christian / Muslim / Hindu?
Being decent and not being a dick surely pre-dates religion?
Being decent and not being a dick surely pre-dates religion?
Feb 24th 2013, 1:42 pm
#73
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
Religions are all a load of shite. I behave decently, and respect people the way they treat me. It makes life easy. Piss me off, and I'm your worst enemy, but if you are generous, and put up with my flawed nature, then you have a friend for life.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:42 pm
#74
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
Not really, but surely you appreciate you will be outdated just like cavemen. 
You (not only you) speak of burden of proof. Some things are impossible to prove or dis-prove even in modern sciences like for example economy there are theories which are subject to people's beliefs because due to non-deterministic nature of the system it is not possible to develop accurate models as to how things will develop if x happens or y happens. Global warming climate models are the same. Philosophy is taking this non-deterministic nature to an even higher level. This is why people have beliefs.
You (not only you) speak of burden of proof. Some things are impossible to prove or dis-prove even in modern sciences like for example economy there are theories which are subject to people's beliefs because due to non-deterministic nature of the system it is not possible to develop accurate models as to how things will develop if x happens or y happens. Global warming climate models are the same. Philosophy is taking this non-deterministic nature to an even higher level. This is why people have beliefs.
Feb 24th 2013, 1:43 pm
#75
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Re: Anyone on here converted (embraced) Islam?
