Riots in the UK

Old Aug 12th 2011, 1:11 am
  #91  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Well thank gawd for us highlifes, eh?
You just love to twist everything people say, don't you? Whatever.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 1:45 am
  #92  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by randomgirl
You just love to twist everything people say, don't you? Whatever.
I just like to hold up the mirror occasionally.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 3:14 am
  #93  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by materialcontroller
Retention of arrestees DNA by the police was challenged successfully in the ECHR. I think this shows that British people aren't at all flippant about surrending freedoms. They will fight for principles that are deemed to be unfair. In this regard, also note the widespread opposition to ID cards (coupled with a pervasive national database) and the embarrassing backtrack by the last Labour administration.

Security cameras are regulated by law, and they've played their part in the reduction of crime, as well as the speedier identification and apprehension of offenders. In fact, those very same CCTV systems are proving invaluable right now, as the police forces of England struggle to arrest the hundreds of people responsible for the large scale outbreaks of violence we've seen recently. The only people who should be worried about CCTV are wrongdoers.
Hi materialcontroller,

Regarding the ECHR decision - the government said, we'll take it under advisement, basically ignoring the decision. Nothing has changed.

As to the CCTV camera thing, it makes us all suspects, like naughty children.
I resent that and choose not to live in such a hostile, suspicious environment.
Can you not see how sinister and repugnant being under constant surveillance is? What do you think it is giving you? Security? Safety? Did it stop the 7/7 bombers?

The statement you made that the only people who should be worried about CCTV cameras are wrongdoers is, frankly, extremely naive. I guess the only people who should fear armed police are wrongdoers, correct? I'm sure Jean Charles de Menezes would beg to differ.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 4:01 am
  #94  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Lothianlad
The chickens have now come home to roost good and proper on the streets of urban Britannia......it is now harvest time in Britain.....the seeds sown by Governments (predominantly that from 1997 to 2010 and all of its insane policies and the limitless supply of welfare benefits to the feral and the feckless and the over fecund of both genders plus the craziness of political correctness and the sharp decline of social values, family values, educational standards, basic respect and codes of behaviour) have now all come to fruition in all their savage glory........and the ******* BB(B)C - British (Biased) Broadcasting Corporation - refuses to acknowledge that the present Government is now left to pick up the pieces and to heal the wounds of a chronically sick and expanding section of society in this country.....according to many journalists and current affairs presenters at the bloody Beeb it's all the new Government's fault! :curse:
You make it sound like a typically Daily Mail-esque "If in doubt blame the left-wingers and the BBC".
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 4:21 am
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

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Vote now, vote often.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 5:18 am
  #96  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
When people tweet from Libya, it's good enough for us to send in the military. When people tweet pictures of Basij thugs in Iran, we support them and decry attempts to shut them down.

When rioting breaks out in England, Cameron says services such as Twitter and Blackberry Messenger could be shut down "to avoid co-ordinated unrest".
Are you kidding me?
Sometimes, you make great sense ...

The idea of trying to ban twitter and facebook (and blackberry phones) is really crazy and will NEVER happen - it's embarrassingly naive for them to suggest it because it would be virtually impossible to implement. Not only that, it would be a PR nightmare (Better to infiltrate, monitor, and take advantage of the very freely available information being circulated for their pleasure!)

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
Ugh, it's the typical UK mindset. More legislation! Curtail freedoms!
From dangerous dogs to gun control, a litany of knee-jerk legislation.

...
But then you have to throw in your old favorites, which really makes me think, you only participate in these debates so you can take advantage of the opportunity to bring up gun rights (and now, seemingly, deadly-f**cking dog rights). Seriously - who in their right minds wants to propagate dogs that are un-naturally bread to be killers? Obviously some owners get attached to their 'sweet little puppy' and can't understand why they should be prevented from owning such a sweet little animal. Here's why (today's news!). . "Pregnant Pacifica woman killed by family pit bull" "A pregnant Pacifica woman was mauled and killed by a family pit bull Thursday inside her home and discovered by her husband when he returned from work." and here's the real kicker: ""They are not barking dogs. They seemed friendly," Carlson said of the two pit bulls owned by the Naporas. "I have a pit also, and he's an absolute angel. It's just really sad.""

"It's just really sad" - no shit, Sherlock. Pit Bulls are time bombs with unknown fuses.

Last edited by Steerpike; Aug 12th 2011 at 5:20 am.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 5:44 am
  #97  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
The statement you made that the only people who should be worried about CCTV cameras are wrongdoers is, frankly, extremely naive. I guess the only people who should fear armed police are wrongdoers, correct? I'm sure Jean Charles de Menezes would beg to differ.
Oh yeah, that illegal immigrant who ran from the police? Wrongdoer in my book!
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 6:04 am
  #98  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Steerpike, thanks for the compliment - I think.

No, I'm not participating in this thread to bring up gun rights. There have been several threads related to firearms where I have chosen not to participate.
Please note I did not advocate for shopkeepers and home-owners being able to protect their property with firearms, as the Koreans did in the LA riots*.

My main beef is people giving up freedoms for supposed security. It's folly, and you only need a cursory study of the history books to see this, time and again. Also, I don't want to monitored for "my own good".

I won't bring up the firearm thing in the UK - it's been done to death in these forums. But I will comment on the "dangerous dogs" bill.

That is a classic example of knee-jerk legislation, prompted by the usual Fleet-street hysteria, with its faux outrage designed to sell papers.

We have a pit-bull ban here in Denver, although I know of several people who have them, and claim they're other types of terrier, but you can see what they are. I'm a huge dog lover, yet I will admit they make me nervous. Not as nervous as being around an Akita, but I am leery around them. I would never leave a child unattended with *any* dog, unless I knew that dog very well. Perhaps, not even then.

All dogs can be dangerous. I put on a bite-suit and had a 45lb military police mutt bring me down several times at Ft Carson. I know what dogs are capable of, even medium sized ones.

The dangerous dogs act was cosmetic. It ignored the fact that the most prolific dangerous dogs were labradors and dalmations. It was the scary looking ones that took the heat.


*I find it interesting that video footage of the Korean store-owners using automatic weapons from their rooftops to keep looters away has been purged from the Internet...
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 7:19 am
  #99  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
...
Please note I did not advocate for shopkeepers and home-owners being able to protect their property with firearms, as the Koreans did in the LA riots*.

...
*I find it interesting that video footage of the Korean store-owners using automatic weapons from their rooftops to keep looters away has been purged from the Internet...
Why don't you advocate for shopkeepers protecting their properties with firearms ... ?
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 10:51 am
  #100  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Octang Frye
Hi materialcontroller,

Regarding the ECHR decision - the government said, we'll take it under advisement, basically ignoring the decision. Nothing has changed.

As to the CCTV camera thing, it makes us all suspects, like naughty children.
I resent that and choose not to live in such a hostile, suspicious environment.
Can you not see how sinister and repugnant being under constant surveillance is? What do you think it is giving you? Security? Safety? Did it stop the 7/7 bombers?

The statement you made that the only people who should be worried about CCTV cameras are wrongdoers is, frankly, extremely naive. I guess the only people who should fear armed police are wrongdoers, correct? I'm sure Jean Charles de Menezes would beg to differ.
That isn't strictly true. The ECHR found it unlawful for the British government to keep indefinitely the DNA profiles of persons who had been arrested but not convicted. I believe there is now a maximum time limit on keeping such material. So the British government did, in fact, change their procedures accordingly.

If you find my statement that the only people who should fear CCTV are wrongdoers naive, then maybe that's because your own statement that living under constant surveillance is sinister and repugnant appears to be the height of paranoia. Why would you feel like a naughty child? Do you feel under suspicion if a police officer stops you for a chat?

As long as I'm not doing anything wrong, what have I possibly got to fear from CCTV? I don't feel like someone is watching me all the time precisely because I have an unremarkable life and stay out of trouble. Why would I feel under suspicion? It isn't an issue. However, in answer to your question, having CCTV present does make me feel safer. I can't drive, so I use public transport a lot. And I've quite often felt unsafe or intimidated on late night busses or trains, or hanging around almost deserted stations.

Cameras might not stop anything bad happenning, but it does give me confidence that it will be easier to identify and catch criminals when it does.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Boiler

You know, this isn't really voting and it isn't a system of lawful government. It's pandering to the passions of the moment (who ever shouts loudest wins), which is precisely what our system of government has been set up to avoid. In the past anyway - Cameron is currently pandering to cries of the mob (not the rioting mob, the other one) and acting out of fear for his own political future as he calls for using legal means to tell people what they can and can't wear (balaclavas), when they can and can't be outdoors (curfews), Victorian methods of deciding who is "deserving" and will get state support, and water cannon and rubber bullets. It doesn't sound much like the UK to me. Personally, I think that the fact that the police managed to get things under control without piles of dead and wounded people in the street is something to be proud of, not get all foamy at the mouth about - Cameron is trying to pass blame off onto the police since he cares about staying in power more than anything else, it seems. There are other countries that would simply have mowed them down. Think about who, for a moment - yes those countries we like to criticize so much.


Besides, how much faith should we place in a petition started by someone who doesn't know the difference between "loose" and "lose"?

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Old Aug 12th 2011, 11:35 am
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by ljaw2002uk
Oh yeah, that illegal immigrant who ran from the police? Wrongdoer in my book!

Absolutely. Let's just shoot dead on the street everyone with overstayed visas and improper immigration papers.
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 1:09 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Amusing: http://www.facebook.com/kneejerkgovernment
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 1:11 pm
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by fatbrit

Will Cameron be sending the coppers round if I "like" that?
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Old Aug 12th 2011, 1:22 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: Riots in the UK

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Will Cameron be sending the coppers round if I "like" that?
Thirty years of liberal dogma is the heart of the problem my Daily Fail read tells me. I'd think you'll be contained in the Tower should you step foot on Blighty.
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