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Old Feb 7th 2016, 2:12 pm
  #16  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
I'm sorry, I don't understand. I wasn't talking about people in poverty. I was talking about people in work.

You can't be in 'poverty' (the British definition of it that is - ie on benefits) and apply to bring a spouse to the UK. The only exception to this is persons on disability or carers allowance.
Poor people = not having enough money to live reasonably, that's all. ..... I know people in poverty can't sponsor people, that was exactly my point! So what are they going to do about it? The smart choice would be to get a better job, get a second job, get some training to get a better job or promotion, not bleat and whinge to the media and government.

In case you hadn't noticed the current government passed the current policy and there isn't going to be a change for at least 3-4 years, and for the most part cutting down on immigration is a fairly popular policy, so the bleating and whinging ain't gonna help. ..... Sooo, back to the question, what are people going to do? .... Oh, yes, silly me, more bleating and whinging that life isn't "fair", and "the government" will have to fix their problems!

Oh, and you have unwittingly proved my earlier point in connecting poverty with "benefits" i.e. government assistance, in that far too many people in the UK (and the US, for that matter, fewer than the UK, but still too many) have become completely dependent on "the government" to fix their problems. Thank you. .... It used to be that the solution to poverty, for most able-bodied people, was work, better paid, higher skilled, or just more of it, but now the go-to solution for many people is "the government".

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Old Feb 7th 2016, 2:20 pm
  #17  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by ldollard
I have to 100% disagree.

When my wife (USA) and I (UK) first moved back to the UK in 2000 (labour) the immigration form was a two side single sheet of paper.

We put our names on it, i think our passport numbers, my mom who sponsored my wife and bam, that was it. UK immigration at the airport where nasty, but aren't they always.

From filing the paperwork to my wife coming over was about 3 months.

No egregious salary requirements, no 30 page+ application with financial addendum.

So sorry but it was 100% different. The Tories have single handedly destroyed the purpose of the UK free movement for British citizens in Europe attempting to bring back their non-eu spouses.

Now i'm not pro Tory or pro Labour, but this government has the strictest immigration policy in the entire world. And as far as i know the only country that singles out its own citizens from being able to settle with their families in their own ****ing country of birth.

over 40% of the entire United Kingdom make less than $18600. Think about that less than 24,000,000 people in the UK could NOT qualify to move their spouse to the UK and thats IF they dont have children who are not British.

Disgusting does not even begin to qualify what the UK government has done.
I was referring to EEA freedom of movement rules which haven't changed but have been more vigorously enforced by the current and previous government.

Non-EU spouse immigration is a completely different matter.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 2:53 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Poor people = not having enough money to live reasonably, that's all. ..... I know people in poverty can't sponsor people, that was exactly my point! So what are they going to do about it? The smart choice would be to get a better job, get a second job, get some training to get a better job or promotion, not bleat and whinge to the media and government.

In case you hadn't noticed the current government passed the current policy and there isn't going to be a change for at least 3-4 years, and for the most part cutting down on immigration is a fairly popular policy, so the bleating and whinging ain't gonna help. ..... Sooo, back to the question, what are people going to do? .... Oh, yes, silly me, more bleating and whinging that life isn't "fair", and "the government" will have to fix their problems!

Oh, and you have unwittingly proved my earlier point in connecting poverty with "benefits" i.e. government assistance, in that far too many people in the UK (and the US, for that matter, fewer than the UK, but still too many) have become completely dependent on "the government" to fix their problems. Thank you. .... It used to be that the solution to poverty, for most able-bodied people, was work, better paid, higher skilled, or just more of it, but now the go-to solution for many people is "the government".
Pulaski, you have now truly confused me.

If you think the current policy is fine, then just say so.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 3:04 pm
  #19  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
Pulaski, you have now truly confused me.

If you think the current policy is fine, then just say so.
If you were trying to my posts from your perspective, then no wonder you were confused.

Those who side with the bleaters and whingers seem to have a real problem understanding that they are in the minority; perhaps not on BE, but certainly in the UK.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 3:20 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
If you were trying to my posts from your perspective, then no wonder you were confused.

Those who side with the bleaters and whingers seem to have a real problem understanding that they are in the minority; perhaps not on BE, but certainly in the UK.
That's not been my experience. Really, it has not.

As I said previously, when the technicalities of the rules are explained to people who DON'T side with the "whingers and bleaters", those same people tend to come to the conclusion that the rules are discriminatory. That is different from rules being 'unfair'.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 3:32 pm
  #21  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
That's not been my experience. Really, it has not.

As I said previously, when the technicalities of the rules are explained to people who DON'T side with the "whingers and bleaters", those same people tend to come to the conclusion that the rules are discriminatory. That is different from rules being 'unfair'.
Suffice to say, we move in different circles.

And in no sense are the rules descriminatory, other than against people who would need benefits paid for by the tax payer to survive. You can pitch it differently and get your friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors to agree with you, but tell them that their taxes are subsidizing immigrants from around the world and many of them might have different opinions out of your earshot.

In the privacy of their own home, and the polling booth, people are more conservative than the media and liberals care to believe is possible.
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Old Feb 7th 2016, 3:46 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Suffice to say, we move in different circles.

And in no sense are the rules descriminatory, other than against people who would need benefits paid for by the tax payer to survive. You can pitch it differently and get your friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors to agree with you, but tell them that their taxes are subsidizing immigrants from around the world and many of them might have different opinions out of your earshot.

In the privacy of their own home, and the polling booth, people are more conservative than the media and liberals care to believe is possible.
Perhaps they are.

And yes - we do move in different circles. Thanks for reminding me.
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 11:00 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

If I could get a hundred pounds for every time I have to say this...the spouse visa comes with a stamp in the passport explicitly saying that there is no recourse to benefits (back me up here SoS). And before someone comes back with, OK, but their UK spouse could claim - no they couldn't because they have to continue to fulfill the minimum financial requirement for the next 5 years in order for their spouse to remain in the UK. So no burden to the tax payer. Got it?
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 8:44 pm
  #24  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Perth
If I could get a hundred pounds for every time I have to say this...the spouse visa comes with a stamp in the passport explicitly saying that there is no recourse to benefits (back me up here SoS). And before someone comes back with, OK, but their UK spouse could claim - no they couldn't because they have to continue to fulfill the minimum financial requirement for the next 5 years in order for their spouse to remain in the UK. So no burden to the tax payer. Got it?
'No recourse to public funds' which doesn't cover all benefits nor benefits claimed in the British spouse or child. The second part of your argument is an unworkable proposal. Once the family has entered the UK the duty of care falls on the state. Even if that wasn't the case it would be prohibitively difficult and expensive to try and start deporting the non-British spouse because the British citizen loses their job or doesn't earn enough to support his or her family. Far simpler and cost effective to prevent the non-British spouse from entering the UK in the first place.
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Old Feb 8th 2016, 9:47 pm
  #25  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by BritInParis
'No recourse to public funds' which doesn't cover all benefits nor benefits claimed in the British spouse or child. The second part of your argument is an unworkable proposal. Once the family has entered the UK the duty of care falls on the state. Even if that wasn't the case it would be prohibitively difficult and expensive to try and start deporting the non-British spouse because the British citizen loses their job or doesn't earn enough to support his or her family. Far simpler and cost effective to prevent the non-British spouse from entering the UK in the first place.
Exactly! Well said, and better explained than I could. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 12:56 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Perth
If I could get a hundred pounds for every time I have to say this...the spouse visa comes with a stamp in the passport explicitly saying that there is no recourse to benefits (back me up here SoS). And before someone comes back with, OK, but their UK spouse could claim - no they couldn't because they have to continue to fulfill the minimum financial requirement for the next 5 years in order for their spouse to remain in the UK. So no burden to the tax payer. Got it?
Perth, I'd back you up no worries but let's face it, it's useless. On another part of BE, I asked for the reasoning behind a comment along the lines of 'the problem' in the UK is all the non-EEA people coming in because they're 'parasites'. I tried a few times to obtain a response but gave up in the end.

I'm buggered if I know why some people can't discuss their views without throwing a huge number of disparate people into a homogeneous lump, all the better to demonise them!

I'm afraid I've reached the stage of - if you don't like the fact that I'm here, piss off and whinge at someone who cares. I pay my bloody way, and then some.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:05 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by BritInParis
'No recourse to public funds' which doesn't cover all benefits nor benefits claimed in the British spouse or child. The second part of your argument is an unworkable proposal. Once the family has entered the UK the duty of care falls on the state. Even if that wasn't the case it would be prohibitively difficult and expensive to try and start deporting the non-British spouse because the British citizen loses their job or doesn't earn enough to support his or her family. Far simpler and cost effective to prevent the non-British spouse from entering the UK in the first place.
Yeap, that is clearly their aim.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:09 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Exactly! Well said, and better explained than I could. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I somewhat agree with your sentiments, I earn over $80k in the USA, but the issue is that people are being forced apart to prove some idiotic point to the UK government.

Clearly if i can make that amount in the USA and have done so for years, its highly likely i'll continue to do so in the UK.

I know i'd have zero issues finding a job within a month of returning paying over the threshold, but then i would have to be separated from my family for a minimum of 6 months for nothing.

These rules should not have impacted British citizens like they have. They are highly discriminatory. I would have moved back by now if I could have, paying UK taxes, my wife paying UK taxes. Contributing to society etc...
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:09 am
  #29  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
.... if you don't like the fact that I'm here, piss off and whinge at someone who cares. I pay my bloody way, and then some.
The problem is not people like you who can and do pay their way, .... and the rules are designed to ensure that only people who can pay their way are allowed in.

The puzzle to me, and others, is why the supporters of the bleaters and whingers want people who clearly can't pay their way, to be allowed in to settle in the UK?

Last edited by Pulaski; Feb 9th 2016 at 1:12 am.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:15 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by michali
Three months?! We came over in 1998 and it took three days to get my husbands visa and another nine months to get ILR! Cannot remember the cost but I think it was minimal. Amazing changes
we actually had a weird issue, which i wont go into, but yeah from processing to getting it, wasn't long at all. But when you are 20 it felt like a lifetime. lol
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