BritInParis

Unless 30 million people suddenly move to the UK I think the British cultural identity will survive. There is a housing shortage in the UK, particularly in the South-East, but it's an easy dodge to lay that particular problem at the feet of immigrants. With or without them there still wouldn't be enough affordable housing to go around.

chris955

In the 60's some were worried that immigration would weaken the 'Britishness' of the country, the fears were of course unfounded and the same in the 70's, 80's, 90's......

TheCreature

Sorry but that's cobblers. If there is any positive impact on the UK economy at all and that's open to debate, it is extremely small. Any increase at all, should be viewed in the light of the increased social costs and pressures that have resulted from the large movements of people into the UK. Economics isn't the be all and end all of everything.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/brie...r/document/235

The UK needs a PROPER discussion about immigration and just sweeping away people who raise the negatives as 'racist' or 'bigots' achieves absolutely nothing. If anything it plays into the hands of the more extreme parties.

dunroving

Absolutely agree with your last two points, but the last one goes in both directions. Portraying immigrants as scruffy, socially inferior criminals (read the US thread and it is in there) can't go unchallenged, for the same reasons. Fomenting that sort of attitude also plays into the hands of extremists. And calling people who point this out as being "naive", "bleeding heart liberal", and "in la la land" doesn't make for reasoned debate.

I'm happy to discuss specific points about immigration in a logical, reasoned way, but it takes two to tango. You can't discuss reasonably with someone whose main point of response is to tell you you're an idiot, or some such.

Interestingly, no one "over there" has raised the democratic solution to their perceived problems. Probably they'd rather bitch and moan than do something about getting a UK vote.

For the record, I am shocked at the new policies governing UK citizens' non-EU spouses. But it's not the fault of the Romanians.

rebeccajo

This morning, all the red tops are posting an interview with a guy named Victor, the one Romanian who was on a flight that landed yesterday at Luton. He has a job lined up as a car-washer for three months, after which time he says he intends to go home.

One.

chris955

That cant be right, there are going to be 6 million flooding in. I read that somewhere. As has been said immigration is a good thing for a country, migrants tend to be very productive citizens and overall make a massive positive impact on an economy.

Lothianlad

And anyone who truly believes that also believes in the tooth fairy. I would never believe it until I see our Romany mate Victor board a flight from Luton to Bucharest on a one way single ticket.

not2old

Like many Brits since the end of the second world war that emigrated to the US, Canada, OZ, NZ or SA. Of course the locals in those countries would dispute that migrants add any value.

How many Brits that emigrated have said 'we'll stay a while make enough money then bugger off home' or those that go to the Middle East on contract for two years with the hope of making enough money to either send home or be able to buy a house at the end of the term.

Romanians, Poles or Bulgarians or whoever no different than any immigrant, its the want of a better life or short stop to get more money for a better lifestyle back in their home country. Short to medium term pain for hopefully a long term gain.

Money ..............

aries

Times have changed. It used to be that Brits in large numbers were leaving, so there was ample space and enough jobs available to replace them.

However in more recent years the exodus has been fewer, yet more and more people are coming in especially from eastern Europe. Our population isn't increasing solely because of births, but by the increase in immigration.

So how high is our population's optimum point, who will decide, and on what grounds?

dunroving

Part of the economic rationale for letting in more immigrants (especially younger ones) is to shore up the burgeoning cost of state pensions (much larger aged population, and living longer, compared to the 1960s and 1970s). So changing demographics also present a case for immigration.

BritInParis

Longer life expectancy has an enormous role to play in the answer to this question. With the first cohort of baby boomers now retiring we need to massively increase the working population to order to fund pensions and healthcare for our ever ageing population. This cannot be achieved at the current UK birth rate. Unless the UK wants to bankrupt itself by borrowing to pay for this we need to wake up to the economic realities of the situation we are facing and realise that large-scale immigration will be necessary for years to come.

chris955

Harvester523

Sounds remarkably like a ponzi scheme - you always need more people to pay off the previous people.
What happens when the UK reaches saturation point?

dunroving

Well, I think the hope is that it will be a revolving door - immigrants coming here for a few years, contributing to the system and then leaving, to be replaced by more immigrants. As long as not too many decide to stay, the retired population will be manageable.

But yes, I think a lot of these things (like US Social Security, local government pensions, etc.) are essentially glorified Ponzi schemes. It's a bit scary.

Sally Redux

People volunteer to die?