whiteninja

Hi

I've been larking around this forum for a few months to gain more insights into the MM2H program but now I finally have some useful info to share.

I started emailing Joy-Stay about the application process and they have advised me of the following:

"Meanwhile, please visit our webpage at MM2H New Annoucements to read the latest announcements regarding our fee structures for the MM2H Programme.

We just received news from the MM2H Agent Association regarding the change of MM2H financial requirements. At this moment, there is no official circular from the authorities yet, the MM2H office still accepts applications based on the present MM2H Financial criteria and the applicants will not need to comply with the new rules & regulations after the formal submission."

Joy-stay's website states:
"The authorities proposed to raise the requirements on liquid assets at the time of application and the amount in FD placement under lien upon approval."

Terrible news, but doesn't seem like anyone will be affected until an official announcement is made.

OriginalSunshine

Ah. That is bound to increase the dwindling number of applicants.... 😏

rogerluli

Quite disconcerting...Even if you can meet the financial requirements now one would never know if you could on renewal when they keep moving the goalposts...

RedApe

Indeed...unless they are liberalizing the requirements then I cannot see the program having any success. Numbers have been falling across all nationalities, although some more than others. But the numbers have been falling since a peak in @2012. Was there revisions to the program about that time?

Programme Statistics - MM2H Official Portal

Also the higher the investment levels the more that pushes developers to build high-end condominiums, generally unaffordable to Middle Class Malaysians and most retirees. If anything the program becomes an "investment dodge"...a way for those not actually living in the properties to buy and rent, leaving a bunch of empty speculation condominiums. Also I heard that many Singaporeans use the program to obtain a tax-free vehicle. There are likely easy solutions to these issues without raising financial requirements while maintaining the original benefits to the program.

xizzles

I reckon the dwindling number of applicants have more to do with the deteriorating political situation and rising Islamization, not to mention the question of safety and security of that country, rather than anything MM2H has done or not to its requirements.

Singaporeans obtaining cheap tax free cars? That's a bit of a far stretch. These Singaporeans can't drive those same cars across the border!

columbine

Plus this for over 50 MM2H applicants! Does it mean it'll be harder for those using the pension option?
(Joy Stay website): "ANNOUNCEMENT (effective from 01 February 2017)
We do not accept applications for category Age Above 50 under the Pension Option."

rogerluli

Goodbye Malaysia...Hello Thailand...

InVinoVeritas

I think they must mean the option of a government pension in place of the fixed deposit. Personally, I don't know anyone who has done this so maybe it just isn't accepted any more.

SushiFan

Recently we also had a discussion on this forum about the changes related to using a portion of the fixed deposit for buying a car with tax benefits. Those rules have changed and I think not for the better. I am therefore not surprised to hear that also the financial requirements for mm2h will be made tougher.
I don't know the motivation of the Government to make these changes.

Thairetired2016

Look at Thailand Elite Program.
Retirement option is a real bureaucratic nightmare. Beware, Thais also change their goal posts, and without much announcement.

xizzles

Bottom line is, if one is rich, don't worry, there'll be an endless number of countries throwing their passports at you (cue NZ and Peter Thiel). Otherwise, one is very much at the mercy of the bureaucrats and their ever changing minds & goalposts.

rogerluli

A few people, even richer than god, can't possibly make much of a difference to the local populace/businesses. A larger number of middle to middle upper class folks will use tons more goods and services than even Bill Gates.

RedApe

The point is that the Malaysian authorities believe that Singaporeans are doing so...regardless of whether they are or not. Singapores vehicle taxes are quite high (as are Malaysias) but by joining the MM2H program the Singaporeans could get a tax-free vehicle...so's the thinking.

I don't think that the degree of Islamization/deterioration of the political situation has shifted that much to explain the trend. Certainly it would help if the government demonstrated more multi-ethnic toleration and more openness politically. But Mathathirism wasn't particularly open about political opposition. And PAS was always grumbling about hudud. Remember that the decline started way back in 2011. Not in 2014 or 2016.

More likely it has to with the global economic situation post 2009-10. Europeans have a lot less money in their retirement accounts and the currencies have dropped. The PRChinese have been able to travel more and because of their economic regulations have difficulty investing internally...so they go abroad. But any higher demand on proof of financial capacity, or requirement that investment property must be above a previous level, will inhibit participation in MM2H. People will go elsewhere.

xizzles

If the pen-pushers ever bothered to blink and think every once in a while, they'd easily see the wisdom in your words.

But, we all know the world isn't run by the middle classes, and we all know politicians only ever pander to the masses whenever there's an election to be won (or, in Malaysia's case, they sometimes don't even bother and just put the opposition behind bars on dodgy charges) - and so, we are left to shake our heads and shrug our shoulders at the sometimes counter intuitive or outright hypocritical changes to any policy that are won't to happen.

Third world country, third world mentality.

RedApe

My impression is that the government will institute a "no agent" rule similar to the one in Sarawak. That could mean they'll simplify the requirements.

Or it could mean that Joy and other agents simply won't find it financially lucrative to do the "over 50" MM2H under the new rules.


BTW here's something about the "failure of MM2H" for Sabah and how builders there think the increase in the housing purchase minimum is actually fueling the construction of housing that is out of the reach of most Middle-Class Sabahans.

https://www.pressreader.com/malaysia...81646779729070