Davita

I live in Indonesia using a retirement visa.
Compared to the MM2H visa, which I have, the Indonesian one is onerous and expensive as it requires a local guarantor.....but no fixed deposit (FD) is required.
I'm trying to influence some hi-ranking Indonesians that if they had a policy, similar to MM2H, it would not only make it easier for retirees to RI it would provide more foreign reserves as the FD's in the bank would initially have entered as foreign currency and converted to local currency.

One question I have is...has anyone done something illegal, criminal or similar where the MM2H FD has been legally forfeited to the Government?

bakedbean

Why would it be forfeited to government? Not heard of that. If MM2H is cancelled or terminated, you get the money back.

Unless anyone knows any different?

Davita

Thanks BB...you seem to be correct as I've searched and found nothing linking the FD and when it can be forfeited...it appears the MM2H FD is only to give the Malaysian Gov't some security and financial gain.

In Indonesia the question I'm asked is how would they recover anything from a foreigner if malfeasance was committed and the foreigner fled leaving debt or injury.
The Indonesian sponsor programs deals with that as the sponsor would be liable for any debt or miscreancy perpetrated by the foreigner.
Cannot argue with that.

I'd hoped there was evidence that the threat of losing the MM2H FD would create some incentive to prevent malfeasance and I could explain that to my Indonesian friends.

columbine

I guess all of us are "law abiding" long stay visitors who enjoy the host country and do our best not to be a nuisance
I have a feel M'sia is less corrupted than Indonesia (that's the impression I get from news and people whom I've met who have worked there, could be wrong for all I know). So the FD is "more safe" in Msia than Indonesia unless one has good high ranking connections in Indonesia like you, then you might have more confidence living there? So it the other way around, whether retirees trust Indonesia or not.

Davita

Maybe my point was not well explained. I'm not worried about an FD in the bank in Indonesia...I have much more FD's and investment in HSBC Jakarta than in HSBC KL.

My point was to impress some here about how to ensure that foreigners, if we had an Indonesian equivalent of an MM2H, could be punished if they have done a criminal or other act against the State or individual....and fled.
You may 'believe' those foreigners in Malaysia may be more 'law abiding' and I hope you are correct....but I doubt it. Therefore, it remains that if some MM2H member did cause some malfeasance which caused debt or injury in Malaysia and fled.... what redress would the Gov't have....excepting the FD would still be tied to the Gov't and the only way it can be released is by the owner 'physically' being in Malaysia, when cancelling his MM2H.
I'm sure the MM2H originators thought of that but cannot find where they can, by law, actually forfeit the FD if an accused perpetrator doesn't return.
I've added that point to illustrate to my friends that it's possible to make that a condition.... if applied in Indonesia.

InVinoVeritas

I don't think you can look at the FD like that, Davita. It is there to show serious intent to settle in Malaysia which is why, over time, it can be released against car purchase, house purchase and medical expenses.

Since Indonesia, AFAIK, still does not allow foreigners to buy landed real estate I don't think many people would be prepared to put up an FD (quite apart from the very real objections Columbine has mentioned).

Gunnar45

I guess it would be quite easy for the relevant authorities to set a rule to (based on court decision) allow confiscation of someones FD in case of absconding and/or leaving unpaid debts or other commitments.
Problem could be that the FD may be to small to cover the damages done....

Davita

1. I'm aware that Malaysia may not have any recourse but I'm trying to impress Indonesians to think along the MM2H program lines. Indonesians are more xenophobic than Malaysians (probably a result of the different colonizers) and they scrutenize all foreigners intent.
2. I disagree...if RI had a similar retirement program as MM2H Bali would get overwhelmed... actually it already is even as it has a cumbersome Retirement Visa program.

JC3

Hi Davita,

I think the FD is one way for MOT/ Immigration to ‘prove’ that MM2H participants have some genuine financial standing. i.e. one has to put one’s money where one’s mouth is.

Not having a FD under lien, could allow a group of individuals wanting to leave a less attractive country for Malaysia to ‘game the system’ i.e. demonstrating they meet the MM2H monthly income and liquid asset requirements by pooling and/or moving money around between themselves, and applying for MM2H separately over a period of time. I am only guessing, but some recent tightening up of the rules suggests this problem exists.

I don't think it would be easy to 'game' a FD under lien. So perhaps it's partly used to stop the potential problems you mention, at the border.

JC3

SushiFan

I do recall that during the MM2H process there was a form involved about the security bond. This form does contain a sentence about "...forfeiting the security bond to the Government of Malaysia...".
I don't know how to attach a PDF file, but it is present at the MM2H website, in the section "Apply now", on the right hand side of the webpage.
To me this means that there are ways for the government to forfeit the FD, but I don't know under what circumstances they would do so.

JC3

Hi,

The Security Bond (c. RM1,500 for Brits I think - the amount required varies by applicant nationality) and the Fixed Deposit are different things. The Security Bond paid is the one that could be forfeited under the terms agreed.

JC3

SushiFan

Oops, my mistake; I am mixing things up. You are correct that those are two different things.
I have looked in my pile of MM2H related documents but it seems that I did not have to pay such a Security Bond, neither for my wife nor for me (we have different nationalities).

Gunnar45

Why wouldn't the MM2H deposit be available for confiscation??
If someone with MM2H would be convicted of some felony and with that would be liable to pay som fine or compensations, he would probably also lose his right to stay under MM2H and with that or even without it, wouldn't a court decision be sufficient to confiscate any FD, regardless if it is for MM2H or other?
Freezing bank accounts before conviction is probably also an option available.