Gunnar45

In Penang immigration they seem to target the long term tourists, I have heard cases where people even have been forced to purchase an air ticket out of the country before being allowed to enter and also some who got caught on first entry after visa run.
So the immigration in KL would probably be a better option.

Regarding if the immigration officer can deny someone entry, of course they can.
They just have to raise reasonable doubt that the individual is not entering MY for the allowed purpose.

Epicurious

All this visa run paranoia is getting totally out of hand. It's mostly based on hearsay, whereas I (and others I know) have direct experience. I have also consulted an immigration lawyer and he assures me that I am doing nothing wrong.

If you are white, retirement age or near, and have evidence of an onward flight within the 90 days, then you should have few problems. I have been questioned a couple of times. My answers were enough to satisfy Immigration: I am retired, not working at all, renting a condo, a long term tourist, bringing wealth into Malaysia.

Many other people are in my position and do visa runs for years with no problem. I even know one guy who openly runs a local business (or two), with local partners. He still does visa runs, for over ten years now.

Thousand upon thousands of Filipinas and Thais do visa runs every month, and most of them get through. We have a lot better chance than they do.

You may say that my luck will run out. I don't see it as luck - I see it as preparation. Immigration need some evidence that you are breaking the law in order to exclude you, not just because they don't like the look of you. And Malaysia needs foreign income!

WiredTight

Pat,
It would be great if inside the MM2H visa it stated "Guaranteed for life"...but for MM2H that isn't the case.
I myself would like to own some property in the future, but... like you've pointed out...What happens after 10 years. What if I'm walking down the road and I trip, knock over a Malaysian Datuk/VIP and the next thing you know, I'm a "bad guy", and now my 10 re-approval doesn't look so appealing to the MY gov't. Yes it's a worst case scenario, and anything can happen in 10 years.
Has anyone heard of a persons MM2H visa being cancelled against their wishes prior to 10 years or disapproved upon renewal ????

RedApe

I think any visa has stipulations...worldwide. If you fail to abide by the terms of the visa they can void it. Working on a student visa, participating in political activities, committing a crime, getting naked on Mount Kinabalu, skinny dipping, etc. All can get you deported in almost any country in the world (with the exception of those countries that give legal residents some Constitutional protections). In some cases you'd rather be deported than put in their jails. I think a local that accidently knocked over a certain Datuks would probably have their life put through hell (there's a strong sense of lese majeste here).

But consider Indonesia or Cambodia...where I have heard stories about investors losing their visa and property because someone in the family wanting to push the "foreigner" out. Bribe paid, bogus criminal charge or mysterious visa cancellation, suddenly the business is run by the father-in-law or uncle and then quality declines so it's no longer profitable.


I think a better question is whether someone had the visa cancelled arbitrarily or renewal disapproved without cause (or being given a bogus "cause").

SushiFan

Yes, the immigration officer at your point of entry can refuse you entry. This applies to most countries and is not Malaysia-specific. What they can also decide is to grant you entry, but for a shorter duration. For example not 3 months, but 2 weeks. I have seen that recently happen to Europeans who live here and use the "visa run system".

Gunnar45

Epicurious,
What I wrote about people being told at Penang immigration that they would not be let in again and the lady that was accompanied by the officer to purchase an airticket was what I was told by the affected persons themselves.
These were some British and some Australian middle aged and retired couples who lived in the condo where I live.
Word is out to avoid the Penang immigration as there has been several cases.
As for Malaysia needing tourist money, I am not so sure that this would be a reason for immigration officers letting people in. They probably have orders to check if the individual is a bona fide tourist.
And I think it would be quite wrong to describe an individual who has been in Malaysia for several years doing visa runs as a 'long term tourist' as there are quite clear definitions of the words 'tourist' and 'tourism'. Plus that there is the MM2H program.
In many countries there are limits to stays within a certain period, like Schengen 90 days within 180 days.
Malaysia does as far as I know not have any such limits, but on the other hand it is also not expressively allowed to stay long term in the country and just do visa runs.
So again, it is up to the immigration officer to decide.

Visa runs may have been a simple way of staying long term earlier, but with the modern methods of data collecting it will only get stricter.
And the foreigners with money which the MY gov't may be looking for can always apply for MM2H.

RedApe

It could also be a calculated way to compel people to get the other visas and raise $$$. Or to get rid of people working illicitly, or who don't have the income ("low quality retirees"). S.H.I.R.T.'s (Suspected Hippy In Retirement Tourism).

To be honest I regularly hear government people say they are seeking "high quality tourists" and by extension the parallel would be a "high quality retiree"...one that will definitely purchase a RM1.5 million condo, purchase a TAXED local vehicle, spend, invest, spend some more.

I know people that are certainly eligible for the other types of visas (married to a Malaysian, have the income to qualify for MM2H...or did) but simply think that going through the process is a hassle and expensive. Their logic is: "The tourist pass is free, I'm gonna leave the country every two or three months anyways, and going through the interviews, and getting the documents is just too complex and expensive".

They don't realize that- like all things- that retirement tourism and health tourism (another big idea) - like other tourism, is competitive. There are only so many tycoons around...and tax avoidance is no longer as easy anymore.

Fenella

Living a nomadic lifestyle, we stay in countries for as long as visas will allow - That's normally between 1 and 3 months. We have done the occasional visa run (Thailand and Indonesia) when we've been having a great time and aren't ready to leave yet.

We're still in our 50s. I cannot imagine spending my dotage having to worry about visas running out and being forced into doing visa runs. Both physically and emotionally (uncertainty) it sounds pretty stressful.

We may not spend much time in Malaysia at the moment (we may not even end up settling there) but knowing that there is somewhere where we can legitimately stay long term should it become necessary or should we just feel like a rest, does give a certain peace of mind and for this reason MM2H was well worth the effort for us.

rogerluli

We could very well decide to spend half the year in Malaysia and half in the US...With 2 of Malaysia's 3 month tourist visas and a week in-between somewhere else that would take care of it without going through everything to get the mm2h...

Epicurious

I'm not going to discuss my particular circumstances in detail here, but whilst I easily meet the wealth requirement, Peninsula MM2H does not fit them. Sarawak MM2H may do, but I have no connection with that region and it would be a big hassle indeed.

The competitive nature of retirement and health tourism cuts both ways. Countries are competing against each other! If Malaysia would rather I spend all my (many) tourist pounds in Thailand, so be it. Meanwhile I pay for every single thing I use in Malaysia, except maybe the wonderful pavements and street lighting (ahem), unless GST counts towards those. I add to Malaysian GDP. I take no money whatsoever out of this country. I sing its praises on Tripadvisor and elsewhere.

So, if a well-behaved tourist stays for two weeks, good; four weeks, even better; but twenty or thirty weeks (with visa run) is bad? If that's how the Malaysian Gov thinks, then I fail to see the reasoning.

merlinman

Let me relate a recent personal & rather chilling experience. We came through Penang immigration on 27 December & got a 90 day visa, no questions, no problem. We then had occasion to go to Singapore on 26-28 January. On return, at the Immigration window a junior female officer looked at our passports & ourselves (a 70+ year old couple, although we like to think we don't look or act our age) suspiciously, disappeared & returned with a surly male who I assumed was the senior officer in charge. After a couple of perfunctory questions related to our purpose of visit & pending MM2H approval (having been lodged in September) he stamped our passports with a special pass for 14 days only with instructions to report to Immigration at Putrajaya (KL) within that time. No further explanation or questions entertained, just waved us on. Our agent (with the best of intentions, I must say) advised us that this could be easily sorted at the Butterworth Immigration office, however after two visits (with gridlock traffic all the way due to visitors to Thaipusam) that office insisted we had to go to Putrajaya, for no other reason than the officer at the airport had written it in the passport - absolutely no flexibility or discretion, even from the executive floor.

So (are you still with me?), after a forced 2-day, RM500 round trip plus a 3 hour wait at PJ Immigration (another experience, not appropriate for fully airing on this forum - suffice to say it looked & felt more like a prison exercise yard with armed guards/police & armoured trucks, presumably waiting to take deportees to the borders) we now have a "Visit Pass (Social)" label stuck in our passports with permission to stay until 27 April, 90 days from the last entry. This raises some unnerving questions: Why were we simply not given 90 days at the time? We were patently not visa runners - why would you do that with 2 months still remaining? We don't have multiple visa stamps, December was our first. Our brief trip to Singapore was for family/health reasons but this wasn't canvassed, nor any detail on our reason for being here, awaiting MM2H approval (lodged in September) which would (or should) surely have been on their database records had the officer bothered to look.

All the recent posts on this subject are informative, not to say cautionary, Gunnar45 particularly but I'm afraid I have little sympathy for Fenella & others in her situation. A lot of people I know would love to have her problems, leading a nomadic lifestyle & staying in one place just as long as she can get away with it & making "physically & emotionally stressful" occasional visa runs, poor thing. By admitting she may not even settle in Malaysia but come "just when we feel like a rest" she is just abusing the system, not contributing anything to the economy or fabric of society & making it harder for genuine long term immigrants.

Gunnar45

merlinman,
Did you mention you were waiting for the MM2H approval?
If so, it could be a misunderstanding from the immigration officer because of this.

I have an MM2H visa, but my agent has advised me that when I come into MY with a new passport w/o the visa stamp in it I should not mention MM2H or show my old PP at immigration because I would then only get a 14 days stay to get the MM2H stamp in the new PP instead of the standard 90 days.
But it also is one more incident showing that it is best to avoid Penang immigration even when doing a 'legitimate' exit/entry.

RedApe

Is this weirdness related to the "Visa - Journey Performed" issue? If you come in on a tourist PASS (not not a visa) you are expected to return to your home country and apply for a VISA. If you opt not to do this, you can be issued a "Journey Performed" Visa. When I received my 5-Yr Multi-Entry Social Visit Pass, I had to also obtain a Single Entry Visa (MYR6 but a RM500 processing fee) good for ONE DAY. Actually good for only the day of issue.

If it's related to that it should have "Journey Performed" diagonally across the face of the Visa. And how much did you pay? Look at the upper right hand corner.

Have you received your MM2H visa as yet?

One suggestion is to get the entry visa outside at the Malaysian Embassy. Then you have a VISA...not just a Tourist Visit Pass.

stepen

Could you have left the country within those 14 days, or did they say that you have to go Putrajaya ?

How long did you stay in Singapore? There are reports that you have to stay out of the country some days before re-entering.

Your mm2h application was submitted to them in September and you are still waiting ?

RedApe

Perhaps of relevance...
Famous Penang Mural Artist Ernest Zacharevic Barred From Entering Malaysia, MP Demands Answers From Govt

https://thecoverage.my/news/famous-p...-answers-govt/