eunan

We have just moved to Republic a year ago and have gone through all the hurdles of this huge move from the UK.My eldest has now gone into secondary school and did not want to learn Irish as he found it difficult.However I have since found out that the fees for uni are not free and you may need a loan as he can only get a grant if he was born here? Any help appreciated.:

JAJ

It may be difficult, but if his future is in Ireland, he should try to learn the Irish language. Have you discussed with the school about any extra assistance, to help him catch up? Or investigated options to learn the Irish language outside the school system.

Not true, regarding grants. See link below.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...l_courses.html

And in any case, if planning to stay in Ireland permanently, would you not be planning to become Irish citizens once eligible? After 5 years, usually, with a shorter time if the spouse or child of an Irish citizen.

eunan

Thanks for reply. He is learning 2 languages at the moment and sitting exams so thought it may be asking too much to take on board another language.However since been told about uni fees etc was informed he has to have Irish for most Uni here-even Queens in the North ask for this. He would have like to have studied at Uni here but seems it will be very difficult. Schools say much depends on the time you live here with fees and Residency.
For my Irish passport etc my grandparents/ parents would have had to register their children as Irish but foreign birthplace at time of birth to gain citizenship through descent I think.

chaoclive

Where did you see this? I'm a QUB graduate and I've never heard of this requirement.

I have heard of people taking A-Levels by distance learning. Not ideal but this is an option which would mean he could get into QUB without taking the Leaving Cert.

Pity you didn't do your research before moving...

lalasmum

Was he over 11 when you moved? If so he will get an exemption from the requirement to have Irish at leaving cert for university. If not, I would get him to take it as a subject. Just needs a D at pass level.

eunan

That is true we never researched.Was not sure we would be living here permanently and just realised this requirement recently.We checked QUB and it does state Irish is needed.Especially for law and the point system requires Irish as one of the major points needed to get in. Exemption is possible but only under certain conditions as with Residency.I think Trinity in Dublin do not ask for Irish as a necessary language. His friends from school also told him he needs Irish for certain jobs? Like a Doctor or lawyer?

chaoclive

Why would a UK university require the Irish language when it's not required of a Northern Irish (no matter which citizenship they prefer) or any other student.

Please provide a link. I'm really curious and would like to make further enquiries about this.

All I can find is this: Entrance Requirements
http://www.queens-belfast.com/home/S...M100/#Entrance
Law
A-level: AAB
Irish Leaving Certificate: AB2B2B2B2B2

I doubt what you have seen is a QUB requirement. It may be more of a the case that you're expected to take Irish to make up your 6 subjects? I'd be really interested in seeing how this would play out if a British citizen living in Ireland was trying to get into QUB and was asked for Irish leaving cert, despite the fact that they had never studied Irish before.

Someone above said that there is the possibility of an exemption if he entered Ireland after primary school.

See here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...rom_irish.html. He will get an exemption and therefore you could petition that QUB cannot require him to hold a leaving cert grade in Irish.

eunan

http://www.qub.ac.uk/home/StudyatQue...M100/#Entrance

We were given a link 6 months ago and it stated he needed Irish as a compulsory language.I checked tonight after reading your reply and saw this link it is fine to have French as language( Which he is studying at the moment-thank goodness) Has it always been like this bc I am curious how we were informed otherwise? Maybe it has just change,but doubt this. I cant find the link but I do remember taking it from a Education forum as well. I am relieved but still need reassurance that this is the case. We were so despondent about all this and felt like the prophet of doom on here for all those poor sods that never even thought about needing Irish.However still think you need Irish for jobs as my sons friends seem to think this and they were born here.My youngest is taking Irish at primary so she will be fine.

JAJ

1. Perhaps go and read the requirements again. When Queens say "Irish Leaving Certificate" the term "Irish" refers to the Republic of Ireland, not the Irish language. The only Irish university I am aware of that mandates Irish is the National University of Ireland and as far as I know they exempt those born outside the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Check at http://www.nui.ie

If you have a specific reference from the Queens University website that says otherwise, then please share it for comment.

2. Regarding fees/grants, etc, it should make no difference between him and his Irish friends if he is a British citizen and he has been resident in the Republic for a few years. Strongly recommended to use official sources for research, not friends etc.

So do you have an Irish or Northern Irish born parent or grandparent? It makes a difference. Otherwise, there's always the option of becoming a naturalised Irish citizen after 5 years residence.

Once again, friends are not usually a reliable information source. Irish used to be required for the legal profession, as far as I know this is no longer the case. It would generally be needed for teaching, especially primary teaching, and if he ever wanted to work in the public service. Unless he is natural linguist, or is already bilingual, 2 languages + Irish is a lot to pick up. But once again, if his future is going to be in Ireland, he may miss out on certain things if he doesn't have any ability in the Irish language. No different to learning Welsh if you had settled in Wales.

chaoclive

Irish is not usually a requirement for most jobs, apart from primary school teaching. Please remember that anyone from anywhere in Europe can work in Ireland and they could not possibly make Irish a requirement for everyone! That would be ridiculous. I am Irish and don't know how to say more than 'hello', 'thanks', 'cheers' and 'goodbye'. I used to work for Ulster Bank out of Dublin.

Also, French is NOT requirement for a pure law degree in QUB, unless he chooses law and french. As JAJ says, you seem to be confusing the 'Irish' in 'Irish Leaving Certificate' - this is the name of the exam itself, not the individual subjects. I have had lots of friends study law at QUB and whilst they hope that you will have subjects such as history, English Lit etc, due to the amounts of reading/writing involved, a person with maths, physics and music who got AAB (at least) would also be able to enter.

I have no clue why Irish could possibly be a requirement at any university in the UK (QUB) - unless he plans to study something related to Irish/Celtic Studies! Again, as JAJ said, look up official sources or call the university. I know their admissions office will be able to tell you the exact requirements (and that Irish was not one of them when I entered the university in 1999, when my cousin entered in 2003 or when my sister entered in 2011). However, we are all Northern Irish residents (or at least were at the time of entering the uni), however, I am sure that the same applies for ROI residents, including 'foreigners' like your son. QUB never as much as mentioned the word 'Irish' on my offer letter.

eunan

He was told by his friends from school regards jobs situation etc.In the Gardai for example he would need Irish (like to teach) most public jobs require it. This came from Irish born teens and their parents( we had not a clue about this beforehand)Therefore we got worried and checked it out,as someone else said we should have done our homework before going to school here and they were correct. We think Ireland and the language is lovely (but we dont speak it) it just means his future is a bit shaky here in Ireland if you cannot get grants/jobs and into Uni if you are not from here. Thanks for your replies,will phone the Universities here next week before we enter applications in a couple of years.Just in case....

JAJ

A quick search reveals that the Garda require two languages, one of which must be Irish or English. So another language will substitute for Irish, it seems. Long term, Irish would probably still help, but it doesn't look like it's essential.
http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=13

Which, as you've already been told, is not a reliable source of information.


You've already been told in post #2, with verifiable reference, what the requirements for grants are. Along with the fact that the fact his birthplace is irrelevant as far as entry to university is concerned. Really - are you trying to make things difficult for yourself?

Don't waste time phoning them. They all have websites, look for information there.

eunan

I wish it was as easy as looking up a website and taking on board the information posted. I soon found out it is not that easy...Residency for instance,is a loophole used to turn anyone down for Child benefit,grants etc. I should know,I am self employed pay my own rent,bills etc here. However still turned down for grant for books,Child benefit all because they said I did not cover all the Residency requirements .This is why I am sceptical of the system here for entry for Universities and grants that will be needed.If you are from Ireland it is fine but from another country it not so easy as" looking up a website, hey bingo you get in doing that!" You must cover a certain criteria to get in ..and Residency is one of the most difficult if you only rent here.It is not me that made this difficult,but the system that works itself around to suits itself.

lalasmum

Once you are there two years you will habitually resident. You don't get full child benefit in Denmark until you have been paying tax for two years either. The same principle applies in lots of countries.

As for book grants etc, they generally are for only very low income people or people on the dole. Not quite sure why would think you should be entitled to them.

JAJ

Child Benefit. See details:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html

As someone else has said, there is a habitual residence condition. However, it looks like EEA/Swiss citizens working in Ireland may not always need to satisfy the habitual residence rule for Child Benefit.

And even if there is a habitual residence test, if you have been in Ireland for a year you should easily be able to evidence that. You rent a property, so you should have documentation of that, you are self-employed so have you registered your business and filed taxes with the Irish Revenue, have you obtained an Irish driving licence, and so on?

There is an appeal process if you are formally refused. However, in dealing with any authority, in any country, it always helps to know the answer before you ask the question.