Does this option really work?
Oct 3rd 2011, 9:19 pm
#1
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Does this option really work?
I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland and have lived in Northern Ireland all my life. I applied for a UK spouse visa for my wife, who is a citizen of Georgia(non-EU). This visa was rejected on the grounds that we didn't supply enough evidence of devotion.
It has come to my attention that I can get an Irish passport. Can I then use the EU directive law, which states I can bring my wife here as a spouse of an EU national(me)?
If so, which way do I go about it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are both devastated at the moment. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
It has come to my attention that I can get an Irish passport. Can I then use the EU directive law, which states I can bring my wife here as a spouse of an EU national(me)?
If so, which way do I go about it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are both devastated at the moment. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Oct 3rd 2011, 10:01 pm
#2
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Re: Does this option really work?
Anybody?
Oct 3rd 2011, 10:02 pm
#3
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Re: Does this option really work?
I'll just enable my 3 post prerequisite as I would like to e-mail a member. Sorry if this breaks the rules but I'm desperate.
Oct 3rd 2011, 10:22 pm
#4
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Re: Does this option really work?
Hi
It's a bit complex for me - maybe someone like JAJ would be best suited to answering you
It's a bit complex for me - maybe someone like JAJ would be best suited to answering you
Oct 3rd 2011, 11:29 pm
#5
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Re: Does this option really work?
Thank you. I have sent a private message to him/her.
Oct 4th 2011, 12:23 am
#6
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Re: Does this option really work?
If one wishes to have legal advice, then better to find a good immigration lawyer. In this particular situation, if the object is a UK migration outcome, then definitely find a good UK lawyer. The EEA based immigration rules are different and often more flexible, however as far as I know they do still have the right to assess whether a relationship is genuine.
As a rule, I prefer to respond on forum and usually don't answer private messages.
As a rule, I prefer to respond on forum and usually don't answer private messages.
Last edited by JAJ; Oct 4th 2011 at 12:25 am.
Oct 4th 2011, 8:18 am
#7
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Re: Does this option really work?
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I don't have the funds to pay an immigration solicitor. Which is why I am using these forums and you in particular, as I believe you have a lot more knowledge of this, than I do.
I have read the McCarthy case, which I suppose is similar to mine, only I am working.
In light of the evidence supplied, I believe that I am entitled to apply but if my case is similar to the McCarthy case - I can be rejected.
I would love to read your views on this. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
I have read the McCarthy case, which I suppose is similar to mine, only I am working.
In light of the evidence supplied, I believe that I am entitled to apply but if my case is similar to the McCarthy case - I can be rejected.
I would love to read your views on this. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
Oct 5th 2011, 3:41 am
#8
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Re: Does this option really work?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/as...e/legaladvice/
Oct 5th 2011, 7:26 am
#9
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Re: Does this option really work?
Unfortunately a forum is not the place to get professional advice. Recommended to refer to:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/as...e/legaladvice/
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/as...e/legaladvice/
Nov 11th 2011, 12:21 am
#10
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Re: Does this option really work?
I was born in Belfast, Northern Ireland and have lived in Northern Ireland all my life. I applied for a UK spouse visa for my wife, who is a citizen of Georgia(non-EU). This visa was rejected on the grounds that we didn't supply enough evidence of devotion.
It has come to my attention that I can get an Irish passport. Can I then use the EU directive law, which states I can bring my wife here as a spouse of an EU national(me)?
If so, which way do I go about it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are both devastated at the moment. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
It has come to my attention that I can get an Irish passport. Can I then use the EU directive law, which states I can bring my wife here as a spouse of an EU national(me)?
If so, which way do I go about it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are both devastated at the moment. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
you will have the same problem even if you have an Irish passport.
In Ireland they are really tightening up on immigration and sham marriages (no offence implied). There have been many sham EU marriages in Ireland to non EU citizens which has meant that now Irish immigration are refusing many visas as a result. The other problem you will face is that you will both fail the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). This is because you have not both lived in Ireland for the last 2 years continuously. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. The only way your wife can get her visa is if she lives in Ireland for 2 years, and that means you supporting her; as she will not be legally allowed to work or claim any state benefits during that time. It would be easier if Georgia was part of the EU. But it is not, so there is no easy way of your wife gaining EU citizenship by marriage. This applies to both Northern Ireland and the Republic. My advice is for her to live in Northern Ireland with you until after 2 years have elapsed then reapply for her visa. In short the longer you both live together in the state, the more likely it is to satisfy immigration that this is not a sham marriage for an EU visa and citizenship. I hope this helps. Feel free to message me any questions.
Regards,
Sean MacMaghnuis
Last edited by Joe-Soap; Nov 11th 2011 at 12:23 am.
Nov 11th 2011, 11:42 am
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Re: Does this option really work?
Hi Tommy6000009,
you will have the same problem even if you have an Irish passport.
In Ireland they are really tightening up on immigration and sham marriages (no offence implied). There have been many sham EU marriages in Ireland to non EU citizens which has meant that now Irish immigration are refusing many visas as a result. The other problem you will face is that you will both fail the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). This is because you have not both lived in Ireland for the last 2 years continuously. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. The only way your wife can get her visa is if she lives in Ireland for 2 years, and that means you supporting her; as she will not be legally allowed to work or claim any state benefits during that time. It would be easier if Georgia was part of the EU. But it is not, so there is no easy way of your wife gaining EU citizenship by marriage. This applies to both Northern Ireland and the Republic. My advice is for her to live in Northern Ireland with you until after 2 years have elapsed then reapply for her visa. In short the longer you both live together in the state, the more likely it is to satisfy immigration that this is not a sham marriage for an EU visa and citizenship. I hope this helps. Feel free to message me any questions.
Regards,
Sean MacMaghnuis
you will have the same problem even if you have an Irish passport.
In Ireland they are really tightening up on immigration and sham marriages (no offence implied). There have been many sham EU marriages in Ireland to non EU citizens which has meant that now Irish immigration are refusing many visas as a result. The other problem you will face is that you will both fail the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). This is because you have not both lived in Ireland for the last 2 years continuously. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. The only way your wife can get her visa is if she lives in Ireland for 2 years, and that means you supporting her; as she will not be legally allowed to work or claim any state benefits during that time. It would be easier if Georgia was part of the EU. But it is not, so there is no easy way of your wife gaining EU citizenship by marriage. This applies to both Northern Ireland and the Republic. My advice is for her to live in Northern Ireland with you until after 2 years have elapsed then reapply for her visa. In short the longer you both live together in the state, the more likely it is to satisfy immigration that this is not a sham marriage for an EU visa and citizenship. I hope this helps. Feel free to message me any questions.
Regards,
Sean MacMaghnuis
However I have been informed that the loophole involving British and Irish dual nationality has been closed, due to a certain Mrs McCarthy(thank you) so now they apply this ruling to everybody and somebody like myself cannot claim to be exercising his rights, due to not living in the other country of which I'm a dual national.
Therefore I have since submitted a new application to the UK for a spouse visa and paid their nicely under-priced visa fee, again. £950. Whereas if I am from another EU country, I can bring my wife here for free. The UK - the place where we do everything to make sure people can come to our lands but be treated equally. Where we don't fly our flags, due to fear that it will be seen as racism towards other nations. Where we can't remove other nation's flags due to fear that we are called racists. Where a man from another country can bring his wife here, free of charge in a matter of weeks, whereas I have paid over £2000 and have been waiting three months.
The UK, you just gotta love it. I might go for that two years in the Republic afterall.
Nov 11th 2011, 12:20 pm
#12
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Posts: 284
Re: Does this option really work?
Hello, thank you for your help. I don't think you understood what I was asking. I was asking if my Irish passport would entitle my wife to apply for an EEA family permit. So this would be nothing to do with the Republic. Simply the UK would have to issue the permit as I would be working in the UK, thus exercising my rights to live and work in another EU country.
However I have been informed that the loophole involving British and Irish dual nationality has been closed, due to a certain Mrs McCarthy(thank you) so now they apply this ruling to everybody and somebody like myself cannot claim to be exercising his rights, due to not living in the other country of which I'm a dual national.
Therefore I have since submitted a new application to the UK for a spouse visa and paid their nicely under-priced visa fee, again. £950. Whereas if I am from another EU country, I can bring my wife here for free. The UK - the place where we do everything to make sure people can come to our lands but be treated equally. Where we don't fly our flags, due to fear that it will be seen as racism towards other nations. Where we can't remove other nation's flags due to fear that we are called racists. Where a man from another country can bring his wife here, free of charge in a matter of weeks, whereas I have paid over £2000 and have been waiting three months.
The UK, you just gotta love it. I might go for that two years in the Republic afterall.
However I have been informed that the loophole involving British and Irish dual nationality has been closed, due to a certain Mrs McCarthy(thank you) so now they apply this ruling to everybody and somebody like myself cannot claim to be exercising his rights, due to not living in the other country of which I'm a dual national.
Therefore I have since submitted a new application to the UK for a spouse visa and paid their nicely under-priced visa fee, again. £950. Whereas if I am from another EU country, I can bring my wife here for free. The UK - the place where we do everything to make sure people can come to our lands but be treated equally. Where we don't fly our flags, due to fear that it will be seen as racism towards other nations. Where we can't remove other nation's flags due to fear that we are called racists. Where a man from another country can bring his wife here, free of charge in a matter of weeks, whereas I have paid over £2000 and have been waiting three months.
The UK, you just gotta love it. I might go for that two years in the Republic afterall.
I understand your question very well, and the law that applies to it.
Northern Ireland and the Republic are both EU countries, however they are under separate juristictions regarding immigration laws. As a resident of Northern Ireland you can apply for an Irish passport. However your spouse (Wife) cannot apply for Irish citizenship until she has been a permanent resident of the Republic for 3 years.
In either case; Northern Ireland and the Republic your Wife will be subject to passing the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). In Northern Ireland and the UK this can be done after 12 months. In the Republic it is 2 years.
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship. There is a lot of this going on at the moment and the Registry Offices in Northern Ireland are flagging any suspected sham marriages to the Home Office. Belfast City Hall was raided by Home Office Immigration Officers this year and a Husband and Wife detained for this very reason. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. My advice is to support your Wife for the next 12 months within the state and then reapply for her visa. Her application will be viewed more favourably then. If you keep reapplying for a visa in short succession your application will just be flagged for investigation (as it will look more suspicious). This is classic behaviour of a sham EU marriage you see. Lots of frequent visa applications.
I know its tough and unfair, but that is just the way it is I am afraid. You will just have to be patient and go through the system. Realistically you are looking at 3 years in Northern Ireland for your Wife to gain citizenship.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MaMagnuis
Last edited by Joe-Soap; Nov 11th 2011 at 12:22 pm.
Nov 11th 2011, 1:07 pm
#13
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Re: Does this option really work?
Hi Tommy6000009,
I understand your question very well, and the law that applies to it.
Northern Ireland and the Republic are both EU countries, however they are under separate juristictions regarding immigration laws. As a resident of Northern Ireland you can apply for an Irish passport. However your spouse (Wife) cannot apply for Irish citizenship until she has been a permanent resident of the Republic for 3 years.
In either case; Northern Ireland and the Republic your Wife will be subject to passing the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). In Northern Ireland and the UK this can be done after 12 months. In the Republic it is 2 years.
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship. There is a lot of this going on at the moment and the Registry Offices in Northern Ireland are flagging any suspected sham marriages to the Home Office. Belfast City Hall was raided by Home Office Immigration Officers this year and a Husband and Wife detained for this very reason. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. My advice is to support your Wife for the next 12 months within the state and then reapply for her visa. Her application will be viewed more favourably then. If you keep reapplying for a visa in short succession your application will just be flagged for investigation (as it will look more suspicious). This is classic behaviour of a sham EU marriage you see. Lots of frequent visa applications.
I know its tough and unfair, but that is just the way it is I am afraid. You will just have to be patient and go through the system. Realistically you are looking at 3 years in Northern Ireland for your Wife to gain citizenship.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MaMagnuis
I understand your question very well, and the law that applies to it.
Northern Ireland and the Republic are both EU countries, however they are under separate juristictions regarding immigration laws. As a resident of Northern Ireland you can apply for an Irish passport. However your spouse (Wife) cannot apply for Irish citizenship until she has been a permanent resident of the Republic for 3 years.
In either case; Northern Ireland and the Republic your Wife will be subject to passing the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition). In Northern Ireland and the UK this can be done after 12 months. In the Republic it is 2 years.
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship. There is a lot of this going on at the moment and the Registry Offices in Northern Ireland are flagging any suspected sham marriages to the Home Office. Belfast City Hall was raided by Home Office Immigration Officers this year and a Husband and Wife detained for this very reason. There is no easy way round this I am afraid. My advice is to support your Wife for the next 12 months within the state and then reapply for her visa. Her application will be viewed more favourably then. If you keep reapplying for a visa in short succession your application will just be flagged for investigation (as it will look more suspicious). This is classic behaviour of a sham EU marriage you see. Lots of frequent visa applications.
I know its tough and unfair, but that is just the way it is I am afraid. You will just have to be patient and go through the system. Realistically you are looking at 3 years in Northern Ireland for your Wife to gain citizenship.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MaMagnuis
So she was going to apply for a EEA Family Permit on the basis that I am Irish, living and working in the UK and I am exercising my rights based on this, thus can bring my wife here for free. This has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland and nothing to do with how long my wife lives there.
However it has come to my attention that the EU directive doesn't apply to me, thanks to Mrs McCarthy, therefore I have applied for a UK spouse visa.
I'll reiterate once more, she is not applying for Irish citizenship, British citizenship or EU citizenship. We are simply applying for a visa which enables her to come live with me.
Nov 11th 2011, 1:53 pm
#14
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Posts: 284
Re: Does this option really work?
No, you aren't understanding. Nobody is applying for Irish citizenship. Nor does anybody want to. We are talking about different things. I have an Irish passport and I was going to bring my wife to Northern Ireland(UK) using the EU directive which allows EU members to live and work in another EU country and thus allowing them to bring their spouse to the country in which they are living.
So she was going to apply for a EEA Family Permit on the basis that I am Irish, living and working in the UK and I am exercising my rights based on this, thus can bring my wife here for free. This has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland and nothing to do with how long my wife lives there.
However it has come to my attention that the EU directive doesn't apply to me, thanks to Mrs McCarthy, therefore I have applied for a UK spouse visa.
I'll reiterate once more, she is not applying for Irish citizenship, British citizenship or EU citizenship. We are simply applying for a visa which enables her to come live with me.
So she was going to apply for a EEA Family Permit on the basis that I am Irish, living and working in the UK and I am exercising my rights based on this, thus can bring my wife here for free. This has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland and nothing to do with how long my wife lives there.
However it has come to my attention that the EU directive doesn't apply to me, thanks to Mrs McCarthy, therefore I have applied for a UK spouse visa.
I'll reiterate once more, she is not applying for Irish citizenship, British citizenship or EU citizenship. We are simply applying for a visa which enables her to come live with me.
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship.
You need to appreciate that applying for a UK spouse visa, and applying for citizenship are assessed by Immigration Officers using the same criteria.
I understand your Wife just wants a UK spouse visa (not citizenship). However the Immigration Officer will be looking at her visa application as the first step of a 3 year journey to gain EU citizenship; as this is the normal route.
Whether your Wife wants a visa only, or later EU citizenship; her application will be assessed using the same criteria. You don't have a choice in that, the Immigration Officer does however.
The problem is that by reapplying for a UK spouse visa it arouses suspicion of a sham EU marriage and will be flagged in the system.
My advice is to give it 12 months, then reapply for a UK spouse visa. You will be more likely to get it then. The more times you apply for the visa the less likely you will be to get it. That's just way it works I am afraid. All that will happen is that you will use up your savings quickly. Its better if you are patient and wait the 12 months; then your visa will go through.
On a positive note, after your Wife gets her first 12 month spouse visa, usually it is renewed without any problems. You best bet now is to cancel her visa application and get a refund then wait 12 months. I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MacMagnuis
Nov 11th 2011, 1:56 pm
#15
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Re: Does this option really work?
Please read the advice I gave you again;
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship.
You need to appreciate that applying for a UK spouse visa, and applying for citizenship are assessed by Immigration Officers using the same criteria.
I understand your Wife just wants a UK spouse visa (not citizenship). However the Immigration Officer will be looking at her visa application as the first step of a 3 year journey to gain EU citizenship; as this is the normal route.
Whether your Wife wants a visa only, or later EU citizenship; her application will be assessed using the same criteria. You don't have a choice in that, the Immigration Officer does however.
The problem is that by reapplying for a UK spouse visa it arouses suspicion of a sham EU marriage and will be flagged in the system.
My advice is to give it 12 months, then reapply for a UK spouse visa. You will be more likely to get it then. The more times you apply for the visa the less likely you will be to get it. That's just way it works I am afraid. All that will happen is that you will use up your savings quickly. Its better if you are patient and wait the 12 months; then your visa will go through.
On a positive note, after your Wife gets her first 12 month spouse visa, usually it is renewed without any problems. You best bet now is to cancel her visa application and get a refund then wait 12 months. I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MacMagnuis
There is no easy way round this. You can keep applying for a visa for your Wife, but it will keep being rejected as she has not been living long enough with you in the state. Continuity and length of stay are heavy factors in granting a visa. Just to clarify, the longer your Wife has lived in Northern Ireland with you the less likely an Immigration Officer will think you have had a sham marriage for EU citizenship.
You need to appreciate that applying for a UK spouse visa, and applying for citizenship are assessed by Immigration Officers using the same criteria.
I understand your Wife just wants a UK spouse visa (not citizenship). However the Immigration Officer will be looking at her visa application as the first step of a 3 year journey to gain EU citizenship; as this is the normal route.
Whether your Wife wants a visa only, or later EU citizenship; her application will be assessed using the same criteria. You don't have a choice in that, the Immigration Officer does however.
The problem is that by reapplying for a UK spouse visa it arouses suspicion of a sham EU marriage and will be flagged in the system.
My advice is to give it 12 months, then reapply for a UK spouse visa. You will be more likely to get it then. The more times you apply for the visa the less likely you will be to get it. That's just way it works I am afraid. All that will happen is that you will use up your savings quickly. Its better if you are patient and wait the 12 months; then your visa will go through.
On a positive note, after your Wife gets her first 12 month spouse visa, usually it is renewed without any problems. You best bet now is to cancel her visa application and get a refund then wait 12 months. I hope this helps.
Regards,
Sean MacMagnuis