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5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Old Aug 14th 2015, 6:43 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by scot47
So where are you going ?
to the republic when our house has sold, my grandparents lived in cork, my dad was born here , my grandfather was a policeman in belfast till he retired,
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 6:45 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

sorry meant my dad was bron in ireland so was my grandparents and great grandparents
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 6:59 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by beachgal21
London Irish, is it the same situation all over Ireland with the immigrants? Also, how come there are so many Brazilians?
Yes it is (with the exception of the 6 counties in the North).
For example, I live in Carrick on Shannon; a small town with a population of 4000.
Here we have a Lithuanica, and Polski Sklep. When one sees Lithunian and Polish shops surviving in a small town; when other shops are closing, it is very telling.
Brazilians come here on student visas, they just need to be signed up for a language college course here to qualify. Legally they can work here up to a maximum of 20 hours per week while studying. Of course many stay after their visa expires; and continue to work for cash in hand in the black economy.
Sites like Gumtree.ie are full of them in the jobs sections looking for babysitting, childminding, aupair work etc. Anything cash in hand, or with accommodation included; and no questions asked.
During the Celtic Tiger boom 1995-2008, many Eastern Europeans came to work on building sites here. But now many have gone back due to the construction work drying up. So the Brazilians have replaced the Eastern Europeans as the cheap labour force here.
Often immigrants will fly into Northern Ireland with a UK visa; and then train or bus across the border into the Republic and stay illegally. This bypasses the need for an Irish visa.
We have Nigerians taxi driving here, and Brazilians and Romanians working as cleaners, childminders.
Often hotel, cafe, shop workers are Polish, Lithuanian, Slovakian; etc.
The immigrants were willing to do the dirty work for low pay during the Celtic Tiger that the Irish turned their nose up at. Once the Irish got used to 20 Euro per hour etc, they wouldn't do low paid work. But the immigrants stuck at their low paid jobs after the boom; and worked their way up to being supervisors and managers. Ironically now those Irish who turned up their noses up at low paid work and hungry for it again; and its the Eastern Europeans that are interviewing the Irish; as they are the managers now.
The truth is, often the Polish workers have third level educations and speak perfect English. They have a strong work ethic; and make better workers than the Irish; and so they get work and the Irish don't.
During the Celtic Tiger the Irish became greedy and lazy; with easy money and credit. They baulk at the notion of working for under 10 Euro per hour; but many Brazilians and Romanians are hungry for that 8.65 Euro per hour and grateful for it.
They get round the high city rents in Dublin etc; by sharing 2,3, or even 4 to a room with bunk beds etc. Brazilians are used to sharing rooms; whereas the Irish wouldn't dream of it. So that is how they can survive living in a city centre on only 8.65 per hour, with high rents. They divide up their rent by 4 sharing a flat or room.
The Nigerians will often all chip in to buy a taxi and plate. Say 4 Nigerians all put in 2000 Euro each, then they have 8000 Euro to buy a taxi and plate. One of them will do the PSV test and get a licence; and all 4 share it. They work that one taxi 7 days a week round the clock. Say 8 hours each days and nights. This gives all 4 an income from the one taxi.
They take out one insurance policy by paying a deposit; then keep the disc on the windscreen; and cancel the direct debit, while driving around uninsured. The Gardai don't pull them as they have the discs in order on the windscreen. So you will have 4 Nigerians driving 1 taxi, with no insurance; and 1 PSV licence between them.
Immigrants were good for Ireland during the Celtic Tiger boom as we needed the cheap labour to work on the building sites etc.
But now it's bust here, and the work has dried up; so we have a labour rich market, with not enough jobs to go round.
The boom ended in 2008 here, and 7 years later its still bust. Its going to take 10-15 years starting from 2008 to boom again; and jobs to come.
In the meantime the immigrants will continue to do the dirty work on the black economy cash in hand for less than the legal minimum wage.
For example; an Irish childminder will work for a legal minimum wage of 8.65 Euro per hour. But a Brazilian without a visa will work for 5 Euro per hour.
Who do you think gets the childminding work? And so the legal workers are undercut and stay unemployed here. This is the reality.
Many people on this forum think they can compare the UK to Ireland, in terms of employment, living costs, immigration, etc.
But they haven't lived in both countries. They are looking at Ireland from the UK. I speak from personal experience having lived in; England, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland. I think its only when one has lived in both the UK and Ireland one can properly compare them.
As I have said before; for the first 2 years one is on a honeymoon period and sees Ireland as utopia with a tourist mentality. But then from 2 years onwards; one begins to change perspective from tourist to resident.
Try to remember; the UK's immigration problems are Ireland's immigration problems.
Since the Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998; the border control between Northern Ireland and the Republic was removed. And so was immigration control between the UK and Ireland.
The thing is; in the North they are more racist and prejudice; so immigrants and non-nationals don't stay. They head South where its more multicultural and tolerant. And so we have more non-nationals in the Republic than the North as a result.
Ireland is more tolerant to asylum seekers and refugees than the UK. We have thousands living here on direct provision.
And after 6 years being processed by the system; they get their Irish citizenship; and they become the Nigerian taxi drivers etc. This is the reality.
In my life I have lived in London, Oxford, Belfast, Dublin. So I like to think I am in a position to weigh up these cities; employment, immigration, cost of living, quality of life, etc.
Its easy for someone living in the UK to say Ireland is great. In 2010 I used to the think the same. After 5 years one doesn't feel the same about Ireland, trust me. And I say that as a child of the 1980's in London that was 1 of 3 white children in a class of 30.
Now slowly the Irish are becoming the ethnic minority in Ireland. When I walk down the street here; I am as likely to hear a Polish accent as an Irish one.
As I said before; emigrating to work and live in little Brazil or little Romania etc wasn't what I emigrated here for; but that is Ireland in 2015.

Last edited by London Irish; Aug 14th 2015 at 7:37 pm.
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by Shaunandelly
What would you say was your work skill?without a desired skill you will hardly ever be able to enter workplace markets in other countries at anything other than exploitation levels.i was thinking of moving but it would only be on the basis of running an existing business in the UK via Internet and Ryan air.
BSc 1.1 (Hons) Business Management
MSc merit Facilities Management
12 years previous experience in Facilities Management (student villages).
Its not a question of having a desired skill here; often job vacancies are filled with cronyism. For example local council jobs are filled by relatives etc.
Its a labour rich market due to the economic boom; and so ones, skills, suitability, qualifications, experience, etc are secondary selection criteria.
In Ireland we have graduates with degrees flipping burgers in Supermacs; that is very telling. The truth is; many Irish here are over qualified for the jobs available; and so they emigrate to the UK, Canada, Australia, where the remuneration and jobs match them better.
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by mrhappygolucky
The Brazillians come /came over on work permits and a lot marry Polish/Lithuanian/Latvian women, and of course they can then stay. Pakistani men do the same.
Agreed.
One of my neighbours is a Tunisian. 25 handsome, perfect English etc.
He married a large, ugly, 35 year old British woman; for love of course I am sure.
Her parents and local community in Doncaster weren't so keen on their mixed marriage (assuming he was after a British passport), and so they moved to Carrick on Shannon for cheap rent and a fresh start. He has his British citizenship now, so no need for a visa here.
True love conquers all doesn't it?
I mean not all non-nationals are hoping to do a Surinder Singh route to EU citizenship are they?
Perhaps I have become too cynical after 5 years here..
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 9:24 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

@London Irish,etc.

God bless the immigrant, is that not what Ireland has been providing to the rest of the world since the famine?

Well now the rest of the world is returning the favour. Any complaints?
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Old Aug 14th 2015, 10:01 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by jonboy
@London Irish,etc.

God bless the immigrant, is that not what Ireland has been providing to the rest of the world since the famine?

Well now the rest of the world is returning the favour. Any complaints?
You raise a good point, it's nothing new.
My parents left Ireland for London in 1960. They never returned.
They have a great life in England, better than they could have had they stayed in Ireland. The fact they never returned is very telling.
Immigrants are needed in every country to serve the black economies.
In economic boom times every loves the immigrants as the cheap labour is needed, and in economic bust times they hate the immigrants when the work dries up and they are accused of taking their jobs.
The only difference being; that my parents generation left with little or no education, and their choices were the boat to America or UK.
Now the young Irish have degrees, and cheap flights. Their main choices are; UK, Canada, Australia.
Young people emigrate for work and a better life, it's nothing new. My parents left a broke country for a booming one. And I did the same in reverse 50 years later, only the UK wasn't bust in 2010; Ireland was.
Any complaints? When ones country is booming I have none about immigrants, but when one's country is bust; then yes I do.
Cameron said 100,000 immigrants would come into the UK, and 350,000 came in. But the UK can absorb them better into its 60 million.
Ireland is 4.5 million, so we can't as well. And that is the problem, too many immigrants and not enough jobs to go round. The young Irish leave, and are replaced with Brazilians and Romanians. The truth is they are overeducated for the available work here; my parents generation weren't.
Someone has to do the dirty work, the unskilled work, the long hours, low pay, poor working conditions. Now the young Irish wont as they have degrees. So the immigrants replace them ad infinitum.
I am the reverse case; as I left the UK with a bachelor's degree and masters. So I couldn't hack it in a minimum wage job here.
But this is my point, a degree or masters in the UK means something. But in Ireland it's a labour rich market full of third level educated immigrants ripe for exploitation.
I hate to say it but a degree or masters here isn't worth the same as in the UK. And this is the product of Ireland having a free third level education system; the young are reared for export.
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Old Aug 15th 2015, 7:54 am
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by London Irish
BSc 1.1 (Hons) Business Management
MSc merit Facilities Management
12 years previous experience in Facilities Management (student villages).
Its not a question of having a desired skill here; often job vacancies are filled with cronyism. For example local council jobs are filled by relatives etc.
Its a labour rich market due to the economic boom; and so ones, skills, suitability, qualifications, experience, etc are secondary selection criteria.
In Ireland we have graduates with degrees flipping burgers in Supermacs; that is very telling. The truth is; many Irish here are over qualified for the jobs available; and so they emigrate to the UK, Canada, Australia, where the remuneration and jobs match them better.
Nepotism, cronyism is rife here you are 100% correct. You will see county council jobs advertised but the jobs have already been earmarked for friend/ relatives etc. You won't even see a lot of jobs advertised, ever seen a job advertised by An Post ? No of course not.
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Old Aug 15th 2015, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by mrhappygolucky
Nepotism, cronyism is rife here you are 100% correct. You will see county council jobs advertised but the jobs have already been earmarked for friend/ relatives etc. You won't even see a lot of jobs advertised, ever seen a job advertised by An Post ? No of course not.
Agreed.
I have seen with my own eyes; a local kitchen porter doing dogs work in a local hotel. His father was a postman. As soon as he turned 18, he started working in the local sorting office. Was the vacancy advertised? No. No CV or interview needed, it was done on a handshake in the pub.
Local elections you always see sons, daughters, etc, doing the ballot boxes and votes. Funny that none of these casual council jobs are advertised, they have already been earmarked.
Yes, you see council vacancies advertised, and they interview alright; but the job has already been taken. They just don't want to make it too obvious, as they could get accused of cronyism or nepotism.
For the first 2 years I naively thought people in Ireland got jobs based on their CV and interview performances. Then the penny dropped, its not what you know, its who you know.
I worked in a family run hotel, and saw all the siblings in managers positions; with no, skills, suitability, qualifications, experience. Daddy owns the hotel, so they get a manager job. And that is just the way it is here.
Irish recruitment and human resources is rotten to the core.
Next time you go into a business and think the manager hasn't got a clue, it will be because daddy fixed a job for his little darling son or daughter.
People now living in the UK planning on moving to Ireland won't believe this, but they will learn the hard way like I did after the 2 year honeymoon period is over.
Here is an example for you. I know a Polish chef, working in a hotel. When any Poles are fresh off the Ryanair flight and hungry for work, he tells them he can get them kitchen porter work etc. No CV or interview needed, he will put a word in for them. The deal is, he takes their first weeks wages (346 Euro) as a reward for helping fix them a start. And when they leave the job it goes on, they sell their job to someone else for their first weeks wages.
It took me a while to figure this all out, why all the kitchen staff were Polish and didn't speak English.
And don't think selling jobs only goes on in 8.65 Euro per hour jobs either. Its in every profession, except the stakes are higher for supervisor and manager jobs. It isn't a weeks ages then, its a months wages for fixing a start.
Before I came to Ireland I didn't know job interviews happened in pubs, with brown envelopes of cash. But now I do.
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Old Aug 15th 2015, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

So you will be heading back to London ?
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Old Aug 15th 2015, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

its no different here in the uk, its changed beyond belief, the government have taken off the poor people in the uk and made it so hard for people down south to live their rents are to high but the government have done this for a reason, and that is to make people leave london and move up north for the cheaper rents, you see conservatives dislike the poor and working class they want the south for only rich people so pushing the weak poor out so they can have a perfect city, theres people who have come out of uni that cant get work end up in mcdonalds so they can survive, you have no idea, i was born in london grew up in london and wouldnt live there again ever, its not the place you cant walk around after dark or you will be robbed, theres hardly any real english people in london now just immigrants who rob everyone, id sooner move to ireland and live quietly in a rural area and forget about the rest, all i want is a bit of peace, i know ireland has its problems my father used to tell me this im a pensioner and i can afford a bigger house that will help me ajust to being in a wheelchair at the moment in my house i cannot move around, even a bungalow isnt big enough, but in ireland i will have a larger house with wider doors easy access for my wheelchair, i just want some peace in me before i leave this world and i know i will have that in ireland its a much slower pace, less noisy, perfect for me
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Old Aug 16th 2015, 12:20 am
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by scot47
So you will be heading back to London ?
I left Oxford in 2010, not London. But no, I wont be heading for London in any case. Yes, there is work there; but the high rents mean it isn't viable.
I liked Oxford as it was one hour on the train to London, or 1 hour down the M40 by car. Also 1 hour to Birmingham International for cheap flights.
I did both things, work in Oxford and commute into London for work too. If I do go back I would choose Oxford over London as its cheaper rent, but better quality of life.
I am waiting to see the result of the Brexit referendum later this year, or early next year. I think the UK will stay in the EU, but if it does leave; then I would go back, or possibly move North to Northern Ireland.
I lived and worked in Belfast for a year and it was cheaper than Dublin, but with around the same pay. The UK prices meant my car tax was £210 v 710 Euro etc. Maybe a move back up North is the answer, rather than to England.
I used to drive to the North to do bulk shopping for drink and electrical goods etc, but now the Euro is weaker against Sterling it isn't worth the one hour drive across the border. Argos.ie and Argos.co.uk are nearly the same prices now for example. Its not worth spending 20 Euro on petrol to save 30 Euro on a laptop etc.
We have a General Election here soon, likely after the budget in October (with some vote buying sweeteners); so I will see what happens then. The minimum wage is set to rise from 8.65 to over 9.00 Euro per hour for example.
At the moment I am undecided on whether to move North or back to England.
My old friends in the UK keep me updated at street level what it's like there these days.
Really before emigrating to Ireland, one needs to speak to someone that actually has done it; and get the real picture. Some of the posts on here saying it's all good here are deluded; people still on their 2 year honeymoon period. Ask them how it is after 5 years, and they will be singing a different tune.
Like I said before, I have seen many people from the UK last 18 months to 2 years here, then return. As bad as the UK is, they prefer it and go back.
With me I can see the pros and cons of both having lived in both.
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Old Aug 16th 2015, 12:27 am
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by bigjohn2014
its no different here in the uk, its changed beyond belief, the government have taken off the poor people in the uk and made it so hard for people down south to live their rents are to high but the government have done this for a reason, and that is to make people leave london and move up north for the cheaper rents, you see conservatives dislike the poor and working class they want the south for only rich people so pushing the weak poor out so they can have a perfect city, theres people who have come out of uni that cant get work end up in mcdonalds so they can survive, you have no idea, i was born in london grew up in london and wouldnt live there again ever, its not the place you cant walk around after dark or you will be robbed, theres hardly any real english people in london now just immigrants who rob everyone, id sooner move to ireland and live quietly in a rural area and forget about the rest, all i want is a bit of peace, i know ireland has its problems my father used to tell me this im a pensioner and i can afford a bigger house that will help me ajust to being in a wheelchair at the moment in my house i cannot move around, even a bungalow isnt big enough, but in ireland i will have a larger house with wider doors easy access for my wheelchair, i just want some peace in me before i leave this world and i know i will have that in ireland its a much slower pace, less noisy, perfect for me
There is nothing wrong with wanting to retire here and live a peaceful life. For retired people Ireland is better than the UK. If one has a UK pension, and a house sold to buy one here cash; then its great. The only bad thing is the health care as we don't have an NHS. Prescription drugs are higher, and health insurance is expensive. But apart from that, for a disabled retired man its a good place to settle. Transport in rural areas can be a problem though, so being a car driver is essential. Unless you want to live in a small town with a Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, etc. Then one can do without a car. Check out this site, its the best one for houses for sale here. For example, houses and flats start at 30,000 Euro in my county Leitrim.

Houses for Sale, Property, New Homes and Apartments for sale, Leitrim | Daft.ie

And before you buy in an area, or while you are waiting to sell your UK home; its best to rent in the meantime. This is the best site for renting here:

http://www.rent.ie/houses-to-let/lei...t-by_price_up/

Last edited by London Irish; Aug 16th 2015 at 12:31 am.
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Old Aug 16th 2015, 11:09 am
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by London Irish
I left Oxford in 2010, not London. But no, I wont be heading for London in any case. Yes, there is work there; but the high rents mean it isn't viable.
I liked Oxford as it was one hour on the train to London, or 1 hour down the M40 by car. Also 1 hour to Birmingham International for cheap flights.
I did both things, work in Oxford and commute into London for work too. If I do go back I would choose Oxford over London as its cheaper rent, but better quality of life.
I am waiting to see the result of the Brexit referendum later this year, or early next year. I think the UK will stay in the EU, but if it does leave; then I would go back, or possibly move North to Northern Ireland.
I lived and worked in Belfast for a year and it was cheaper than Dublin, but with around the same pay. The UK prices meant my car tax was £210 v 710 Euro etc. Maybe a move back up North is the answer, rather than to England.
I used to drive to the North to do bulk shopping for drink and electrical goods etc, but now the Euro is weaker against Sterling it isn't worth the one hour drive across the border. Argos.ie and Argos.co.uk are nearly the same prices now for example. Its not worth spending 20 Euro on petrol to save 30 Euro on a laptop etc.
We have a General Election here soon, likely after the budget in October (with some vote buying sweeteners); so I will see what happens then. The minimum wage is set to rise from 8.65 to over 9.00 Euro per hour for example.
At the moment I am undecided on whether to move North or back to England.
My old friends in the UK keep me updated at street level what it's like there these days.
Really before emigrating to Ireland, one needs to speak to someone that actually has done it; and get the real picture. Some of the posts on here saying it's all good here are deluded; people still on their 2 year honeymoon period. Ask them how it is after 5 years, and they will be singing a different tune.
Like I said before, I have seen many people from the UK last 18 months to 2 years here, then return. As bad as the UK is, they prefer it and go back.
With me I can see the pros and cons of both having lived in both.
London Irish, I really think you need a reality check. You live in a tiny town where you have had bad experience and complain about the whole of Ireland. There are too many people with degrees and just because you have a degree doesn't guarantee you a job. Why didn't you move to a bigger town then if you are complaining?
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Old Aug 16th 2015, 11:46 am
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Default Re: 5 years in Ireland now and wish I had stayed in the UK

Originally Posted by Moses2013
London Irish, I really think you need a reality check. You live in a tiny town where you have had bad experience and complain about the whole of Ireland. There are too many people with degrees and just because you have a degree doesn't guarantee you a job. Why didn't you move to a bigger town then if you are complaining?
If you read my posts properly, you will see that I spent the first 2 years living in Dublin. Then I quit my job, and moved to Carrick on Shannon. I have also lived in Belfast. So I have a good overall picture of what it's like in Ireland, small town, and city. I have a degree and a masters. When I graduated having a degree did guarantee one a job, now it doesn't; times have changed. To answer your question, the high rent costs; and having to share with Brazilians and Polish in shared accommodation was the reason I left Dublin. I had enough of working with them, then living with them. I don't speak Portugese nor do I speak Polish. As I have said before, I didn't emigrate to live in little Brazil or little Poland, and that is what bigger town Ireland has become. Yes there is more work in bigger towns and cities, but it's 8.65 Euro per hour dogs work for immigrants.
Say I do move to a big town or city for work, then 60-70% of one's wages goes on rent; unless one wants to live in shared houses like a student.
Take a look at this ad for a shared room in Dublin; the size of the room, and how close the beds are together. This is the reality of living in a city for the immigrant on 8.65 Euro per hour. I rented a room in a 4 bedroom house in Dublin; with Polish and Brazilian immigrants. I speak from personal experience.
The immigrants new to a country move to the big towns and cities; as that is where the work is. So the rents are higher, as the population; and supply and demand is more out of balance.
One ends up working 40 hours per week to live in a small room with people that don't speak English. Its not the Irish utopia one dreams of.
House share, 58 fortlawn park, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15, West Co. Dublin

Last edited by London Irish; Aug 16th 2015 at 11:50 am.
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