London Irish

Hi everyone,
I have read many of the posts on here over the years.
Many of them remind me of how I felt before I left the UK for Ireland 5 years ago, and how I felt in Ireland during the first 2 years.
But I have been here 5 years now, and am just starting my 6th year; and wish I had stayed in the UK to be honest with you.
Rather than sugar coat things, and make it its all great here; I will give you my honest view on living here in 2015, not through the eyes of a tourist; but through the eyes of a resident.
I am 38 years old, single, no kids. I was born in London to Irish parents that left home in 1960 for work. They never returned. I always felt Irish, not English; living in London, so it was my dream to live here and settle.
It took me years of planning to actually do it. I came at the wrong time in 2010; as after the Celtic Tiger boom of 1995-2008 ended, things here started to go from boom to bust here, and by 2010 it was really bad.
When I drove off the ferry at Rosslare in March 2010 it was snowing heavily.
I had 6000 Euro in cash on me, and all my possessions loaded into my car; everything I owned in the world.
For the first 2 years I lived in Dublin, and got a job in a hotel. I paid 700 Euro VRT to register my car on Irish plates; and wish I had owned it in the UK for more than 6 months to avoid this so take note.
Due to the high cost of renting in Dublin I was forced to rent a room in shared house. It wasn't ideal at 33, but needs must; and my pay was minimum wage in the hotel (8.65 Euro per hour).
It was dogs work, and like many immigrants I was worked hard. The staff turnover was massive, and the Irish hotel owners only employed immigrants hungry for work and money so they could get the most out of them.
After 2 years of slavery I got sick of working with people that couldn't speak English, and only spoke in Polish or Portuguese. You see the hotel mainly had Polish and Brazilian staff; very few Irish as they wouldn't stand for being treated like slaves.
After 2 years I knew I could get dole, so I jacked my job in and signed on. Working with Brazilians and Polish was one thing, but living with them was another. I had enough. It wasn't my dream to emigrate here to little Poland or Brazil; but that is the reality now. There are thousands of Polish and Brazilians in Dublin, and throughout Ireland cities and towns.
I had this romantic idea that the Irish look after their own first; but its a myth. Having an Irish name, means nothing here. One gets treated the same as any EU citizen by an employer; just a number.
The truth is many Irish have left for Canada, Australia, and the UK for work. The ones that stayed had ties; such as mortgages or kids.
So when one applies for a job here, one is competing with the Irish on the dole after the Celtic Tiger, and also the thousands of Polish and Brazilians too.
Often they speak perfect English, and have third level educations; so they are highly employable and exploitable. For 8.65 Euro per hour they will work, and work hard and long for it; as it's a fortune compared to what they would earn at home.
So here I am now, 3 years in and out of work; on and off the dole. I made friends over the years; and they either emigrated or moved away for work. Its easy to cultivate new friendships here; but maintaining them is another matter. People move around more for work, as there just isn't the employment prospects that one has in the UK. Ireland is 4.5 million compared to the UK 60 million. It takes a while for that to sink in, as one realises there aren't as many jobs here to go round.
My advice to anyone in the UK thinking of emigrating to Ireland is don't do it; stay in the UK. As bad as your life might be now, things won't be better in Ireland. I have seen many people from the UK come and go back in the last 5 years. Often they will last 18 months to 2 years, and then they can't get work and their savings start running out. They can't get dole due to the HRC (Habitual Residence Condition); so they have to go back to get UK dole.
To give you an idea of my actual living costs living in Carrick on Shannon, County Leitrim:
Rent 300 Euro per month
Water 160 Euro per year
Broadband 35 Euro per month
Car tax (2.0 litre) 710 Euro per year
Car Insurance 850 Euro per year
NCT test 55 Euro
Diesel 92 Euro per tank (1.54/litre)
Tesco food shop per week 100 Euro
Electric every 2 months 200 Euro winter/100 Euro summer
Health Insurance can't afford (50 Euro per GP visit)
Pint of beer in local pub 5.25 Euro
I currently receive 188 Euro per week dole, and 37 Euro per week Rent Allowance. I also get a Medical Card for free GP appointments.
All of the above is true and fact. For the first 2 years I love living here and had hope. It was a honeymoon period where I could see no bad in Ireland. I had the tourist mentality that most emigrants have when they fulfill their dream and have hope.
But after the 2 years, ones hope fades, and the dream turns to reality. I thought after 5 years things would pick up, and slowly Ireland would return from bust to boom again; I was wrong.
Everything has gone up here; food, fuel, taxes, etc. The only that hasn't gone up are the wages. To make matters worse the value of the Euro against Sterling has weakened. I have noticed day to day prices in Tesco going up, petrol going up, and this year the Government brought in the water tax.
Yes the house prices and rents are dearer in the UK; but the wages are higher too. All things considered, Ireland is more expensive to live in than the UK; and I say that as a man that lived in London, and Oxford before I emigrated to Dublin.
Its not just about the living costs though. I have seen so many on here just look at that factor when weighing up UK v Ireland living. The quality of life here is less, and I hate to admit that but its true. Anywhere is nice when one has money, and lots of it. Its a great cushion. As beautiful as Ireland is, nice views don't put food on the table.
Its still a very Roman Catholic country, and the Church/State control in schools and politics is strong. Not like it was until the 1980's here granted; but still nothing like as liberal as the UK. It took me years to adjust from British culture to Irish culture.
My advice is don't emigrate here, as you won't get dole for 2 years; and getting work here within those first 2 years is hard. The low pay, shift work, and being treated badly will wear you down; not to mention killing your social life and relationships. That is the reality of immigrant work here.
I now wish I had stayed in the UK, as 5 years on I would be better off than I am here on the dole. There is more work in the UK now, and better paid; with better conditions. I have Irish-born family that left for London when I came here in 2010, the exact opposite of me. And they have never been on the dole or unemployed in the last 5 years. They won't return to Ireland, and that is telling in itself.
The main mistake I have seen people make, and I did it myself; was to come here without enough savings to live off for the first 2 years. I came with only 6000 Euro, and it should have been 30,000 to cover me if I couldn't have found work in those 2 years. Now I can get dole, but in those first 2 years I couldn't. When I got sick it was 50 Euro every GP visit. Things like that soon eat up your savings.
Of course I did it alone, and it's harder to emigrate here with a partner or children to support too; and that is why I say 2 years worth of savings.
I hate to admit how bad it is here; as I remember how full of hope I was back in 2010. Had I seen my life here in 2015 then I would have stayed.
I am now waiting on the result of the Brexit referendum; and if the UK leaves the EU in 2017 I will return.
The Euro is weak here and will get weaker. Sterling is stronger, and the UK prices cheaper. I do the same weekly shop here in Tesco that I did in 2010. But it was 85 Euro then, and now it's 100 Euro for the same items. It may not sound much, but that 15 Euro per week x 52 weeks means one is now 780 Euro per year worse off 5 years on. And as I said before, the wages haven't gone up 780 to offset this.
Many of the Eastern Europeans went back after the Celtic Tiger boom ended in 2008. The work dried up, and so they went home.
Some of them with mortgages and children here stayed. They hung on to their jobs and worked their way up slowly to being supervisors and managers here.
This is another factor, often one will go into a cafe, or shop and see 100% Polish or Lithuanian staff; no Irish at all. Reason being that the manager is Polish or Lithuanian; and unlike the Irish that won't look after their own; they will. So as good as your CV is; with skills, suitability, experience, perfect English, you will be competing with hundreds of Polish or Lithuanians. They get the job and you don't; due to the manager looking after their own.
This is the reality here, I speak from personal experience. In the last 5 years I have seen Brazilians take over from the Eastern Europeans as the cheap labour force here. They will break their back here for 8.65 Euro per hour doing work the Irish won't do.
Another thing that has ruined the jobs market here is Jobbridge. Its like the YTS schemes in the UK in the 1980's. A way of the Government massaging unemployment figures. Internships that pay one an extra 50 Euro per week dole for 30 hours per week slavery.
So now paddy isn't on the dole live register, he is a Jobbridge intern; upskilling for 9 months for a job that doesn't exist.
The dole pays his extra 50 per week, not Paddy's employer; so its a good deal for them, free labour. No need to get a Polish or Brazilian breaking their back for 8.65 Euro anymore; Paddy will do it free under the Jobbridge scheme.
So when one emigrates this is what one is now up against in 2015. Thousands of Jobbridge internships, that were previously real jobs.
Employers aren't hiring Paddy for 8.65 Euro per hour, when they can get him free for 30 hours per week as an intern.
It massaging the unemployment figures, by creates more unemployment here ironically. After the 9 month internship Paddy is back on the dole you see; if he hasn't left for the UK that is.
I have give up looking for work at this stage to be honest. Its taken 5 years, but the reality has worn me down slowly here. The truth is, I am better off on the dole here on 225 Euro per week; than breaking my back working for 346 Euro per week working like a slave.
Don't think because you were on £30-40K in the UK in a profession that you can walk into something like it here and earn 30-40K Euro. That is delusion, yet for the first 2 years many think it's realistic. And then it sinks in and they return to the UK.
Its OK if you sell your UK home for 80K etc and then live here off the savings and buy a cheap house or flat for 50K etc. It can be done. But as I said before; nice views don't put food on the table. A UK pension or redundancy will of course. But for the middle aged, or younger; with children to support until 18, it isn't viable in 2015. One needs 2 incomes to pay a mortgage and support children here; same as in the UK.
For 2 years you will think it's just like the utopia you dreamed it would be. The 710 car tax and 160 water tax won't bother you. But then when you can't get a job, and can't get dole; and have to pay 50 Euro to see your GP, it all starts to wear you down.
So think carefully before you leave the UK for Ireland. I thought about it for 2 years before I left in 2010. I thought if I never took the risk I would always regret it, and think what if? But now I do regret it.
I wont tell you my lowest points here, but suffice it to say; in the 5 years there have been some very tough times for me here.
Sorry to shatter anyones hopes and dreams, but what I have said is reality. Had someone told me how it really is here in 2010 when I used to read this forum; then I might not have believed all the sugar coating; its great here posts. No one wants to admit they made a mistake do they? It dents ones ego. But I don't mind admitting leaving the UK for Ireland was a big mistake for me. My only hope is that you don't do the same and go through what I did to learn it the hard way.

Snap Shot

Hello.

Sorry it's not worked out for you.

I understand your frustration. However, if you are ready to pack it in and call it quits then well done.

mrhappygolucky

I have alway tried to portray it as it really is and get accused of being negative etc. A lot of your living expenses could be trimmed back a fair bit, ie €100 a week grocery, try Lidl / Aldi, you'd struggle to carry a €100's worth. Road tax €710 for a 2 litre, get a smaller car. Car insurance €850 sounds way off mark, unless you have traffic violations, points etc. I'm not sure who fed you the line of fulfilling the Habitual Residency taking two years, there are ways around that.

But at the end of the day if you're not happy, maybe it is time for you to go back to where you thought the grass was greener. Hope the grass hasn't been cut or shit on by the time you get back to the land where the streets are paved with gold. Good luck

scot47

The UK is no cushy number either - especially for those working on minimum wage. Zero hours contracts are the norm. That means people do not know how much they will earn next week.

jonboy

A very good and brave post London Irish, thank you. I suppose that the "high"unemployment benefit and the "low" rents initially look ok but here in London it is the other way round.

I guess you were blinded by the notion of your heritage but as you have found, the "market" rules.
Please do not think that the other ethnic groups give their kin an easier ride, they just employ them as the know their mentality and can exploit them easier as a result.

Come back to the UK but it will be the same *hit but differently applied!

Shaunandelly

What would you say was your work skill?without a desired skill you will hardly ever be able to enter workplace markets in other countries at anything other than exploitation levels.i was thinking of moving but it would only be on the basis of running an existing business in the UK via Internet and Ryan air.

Fed up Brit

I had to reply. You do not want to post a rosy picture of Ireland so at least be factual on the UK also.
We have more EU migrants here that are chose for first when jobs are handed out, they go straight to the top of the list at recruitment agencies. Whilst we get NHS we still have to pay for prescriptions, the EU migrants do not, nor do they have to pay for bus fares as they get those free also. The job market is bad here and being made worse by apprenticeships and EU workers. The majority of our jobs are advertised in the EU only and not in UK. What jobs are going are going to the Polish. Our houses are broken into my Romanian's and the police do nothing. Whilst we pay car tax and insurance the EU know how to dodge this by returning back to their native country in their car once every 6 months. Maybe you should have done that.
UK is not longer the Great Britain it once was, we are no longer the country who thinks of its own we are now the country who puts everyone else first, where we take the Human Rights to the extreme. Where we are told not to celebrate Christmas but call it Holidays despite other religions being able to hold their celebrations here. Where bikers have to remove helmets to enter shops yet others can walk in covered by a Burkka.

I am sorry but the UK is not all that. We are too soft on others and would rather see our fellow Brits suffer. The EU migrants know all the scams yet UK do nothing. They come here get a councuil house pretend to split with partner get another house and rent one out. They collect money for their children who do not even reside in the UK.

Our minimum wage is not worth it, our benefits go to the wrong people, our government stop a 1% wage increase for nurses etc but collect 30% rise themselves.

We are penalised for Marrying Non EU yet EU can marry Non EU and not get the hassle us Brits do. We have to be earning at £18,500 should we wish to reside in Uk with our Non EU partners, which is not always possible yet EU can bring a bus load in. Not to mention they are the ones at the height of Scam marrriages. how many Brits have been known to do a scam marriage. not many.

You cannot go into alot of places here without hearing a polish accent. Polish working in our Job Centres, DWP, Doctors, Dentists, home office, you telling me we have no UK who can do these jobs. So for those who think EU pick potatoes think again. Ireland may not be the best but the UK is far from what people think it is. Brits need to wake up.

scot47

EU migrants do not pay for prescriptions or bus fares ? Who told you that ? The Daily Mail ? IT IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

Kipper propaganda !

Moses2013

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you, but I think you'll find the UK even worse these days if you are complaining about other nationalities and Ireland is actually one of the last places in Europe where you can earn money without being highly educated. Not liking Ireland is one thing, but what is the minimum wage in the UK and how far can you go with it in London? In Germany you'll find Polish etc. working for €5 the hour and now the Polish are complaining about other nationalities. Ireland isn't for everyone and when something goes wrong and you are in the wrong location it's easy to blame the country. I work with French, Spanish, Germans, Dutch and the ones who also worked in the UK (5 out of 6) prefer Ireland. There are pros and cons everywhere but I can assure you that poverty in the UK is higher

bigjohn2014

you are spot on moses in everything you have said, Britain isnt what it was, my son lives in london and there isnt work in london like there used to be because the uk buy from abroad, the rents in london are so high the government are moving people on benifits up north so they can afford the rents, there is roads paved with gold just a big dirt track and its getting worse for people in the uk, our NHS is in big trouble because mr cameron wants it to go private, also people on the dole are sanctioned if they more than 5 mins late signing on so thei r families get no money, there are people sleeping in hyde park because they can not afford rents in and around london, children have to stay on at school till they are 18 years of age because there is nothing outside for them, we have thousands of migrants coming into britain from all over the world jumping on the chanel tunnel even if they die trying calais cant handle whats going on our lorries are stacked up in kent because the migrants are climbing into their lorries in their hundreds, the uk is over crowded there is no work for the people of the uk yet mr cameron is letting them come in they are put in hotels around the country given 3 meals aday and £35 pocket money there are brits who are poorer than these migrants its all so unfair, id sooner cut down and live in a small town in ireland in peace and quiet than live in the uk and thats why im selling up and moving to ireland for peace and quiet at my time of life, my dad was born in ireland as was his parents brothers and sisters so im half irish and proud of that, so dont knock ireland life is what you make it but im telling you as it is the UK is a boiling pot what with isis threatening to blow up people in the uk and beheading people i really have had enough of uk im out of it very soon and cant wait, i dont expect anything from ireland just a bit of peace and quiet before i leave this world and ill be happy

bigjohn2014

sorry meant there arent any roads paved with gold just dirt tracks

bigjohn2014

also.. FEDUPBRIT ... you are also spot on and well said i just wish people would open their eyes and see what is happening here in the uk, the brits have no backbone they just let it happen, they dont seem to care anymore britain has lost the GREAT part we do not stick together dont support one another there is no help here its falling apart to be honest and im sick of living here

scot47

So where are you going ?

beachgal21

London Irish, is it the same situation all over Ireland with the immigrants? Also, how come there are so many Brazilians?

mrhappygolucky

The Brazillians come /came over on work permits and a lot marry Polish/Lithuanian/Latvian women, and of course they can then stay. Pakistani men do the same.