Go Back   British Expats / Usenet Groups / rec.travel.* / rec.travel.europe

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old Aug 30th 2003, 5:09 pm   #1
Ema Nymton
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

A friend of mine has a minor criminal record in the US. All of the
crimes were committed over 10 years ago, however, when recently trying
to visit Canada, he was denied admittance. The problem has since been
resolved with the Canadian authorities, but he is worried that he may
be prevented from vacationing in England for a week, this October. He
will be bringing documentation with him to England in case there is a
problem, but is there anything else that can be done? What is
England's policy on this? All of the offenses were misdemeanors, and
as I said they were all very long ago. But the Canada incident has us
worried.

Thanks
 
Sponsored Links
Old Aug 30th 2003, 5:57 pm   #2
Go Fig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

In article <989a18fe.0308300909.5419c7aa@posting.google.com >,
neurogenesis42@yahoo.com (Ema Nymton) wrote:

    > A friend of mine has a minor criminal record in the US. All of the
    > crimes were committed over 10 years ago, however, when recently trying
    > to visit Canada, he was denied admittance. The problem has since been
    > resolved with the Canadian authorities, but he is worried that he may
    > be prevented from vacationing in England for a week, this October. He
    > will be bringing documentation with him to England in case there is a
    > problem, but is there anything else that can be done? What is
    > England's policy on this? All of the offenses were misdemeanors, and
    > as I said they were all very long ago. But the Canada incident has us
    > worried.
    >
    > Thanks

The UK officials have, rightly so, no hesitation in sending you back
from where you came.

I would not go without a visa granted from a consulates office in the
U.S. prior to the trip.

jay
Sat, Aug 30, 2003
mailto:gofig@mac.com

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old Aug 30th 2003, 8:21 pm   #3
Derek
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:57:09 -0700, Go Fig <gofig@mac.com> wrote:


    >The UK officials have, rightly so, no hesitation in sending you back
    >from where you came.
    >I would not go without a visa granted from a consulates office in the
    >U.S. prior to the trip.

No, you are making the mistake of simply assuming we mirror the USA
policy on visas. We don't.

The UK makes no reference to criminal records, arrests, membership of
the communist party, naziism, anti semitism, or any of that "Moral
Turpitude" crap.

The British Government website :

http://www.britainusa.com/visas/visas.asp

Lists 3 questions

1) Nationality (=USA!)

2) Destination (=UK)

3) Purpose of visit (=Visit) ! :-)

result, verbatim =

You asked if a national of United States would require a visa to Visit
(the) United Kingdom

NO based upon the information provided, prior entry clearance WILL NOT
be required in this case.

So no forms to complete. (No such forms exist)

No requirement to obtain prior clearance. (No proceadure for that
exists either).

Meanwhile over on uk.legal some poor guy, with no previous
convictions, who got drunk one night and staggered into the path of a
policeman on his way back to the tube station, thereby getting himself
arrested and charged with being "Drunk and disorderly", found himself
in court where the judge "Bound him over" to "Keep the peace for one
year" and discharged him with no fine and no prison sentence.

Now has to cancel his forthcoming holidays in the USA because he must
apply for a Visa with a lead time of 6 - 8 weeks on an annual basis
for the rest of his life, and there is no time before his holidays.

That is despite the fact the judge remarked he found it difficult to
understand why the police had pressed the case as far as prosecution
in the first place. In the UK his prosecution would be regarded as
"spent" after 12 months and to all intents and purposes would not have
to be declared on any forms anywhere for any purpose ever again. He
could just forget about it.

Even an arrest for some trivial administrative offence such as not
buying a TV license (about 4000 people in jail here for just this)
results in ineligibility for the Visa Waiver Scheme of the USA.
Whereas US citizens do not require visas to enter the United Kingdom
period.

DG
 
Old Aug 30th 2003, 8:45 pm   #4
Go Fig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

In article <2jt1lvojisg1t54gmi06mr0llofo53agq0@4ax.com>,
derek <dgg@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    > On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:57:09 -0700, Go Fig <gofig@mac.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >The UK officials have, rightly so, no hesitation in sending you back
    > >from where you came.
    > >
    > >I would not go without a visa granted from a consulates office in the
    > >U.S. prior to the trip.
    > >
    >
    > No, you are making the mistake of simply assuming we mirror the USA
    > policy on visas. We don't.

No, I'm not. I'm basing it on years and years of going to the UK as a
U.S. National.

How many times have you entered the UK as a foreign national?


    > The UK makes no reference to criminal records, arrests, membership of
    > the communist party, naziism, anti semitism, or any of that "Moral
    > Turpitude" crap.
    >
    > The British Government website :
    >
    > http://www.britainusa.com/visas/visas.asp
    >
    > Lists 3 questions
    >
    > 1) Nationality (=USA!)
    >
    > 2) Destination (=UK)
    >
    > 3) Purpose of visit (=Visit) ! :-)
    >
    > result, verbatim =

It is not the form questions, it is the interview part that may present
the problem.

Are you willing to guarantee this persons expenses, only knowing they
were misdemeanors. Canada denied entry at first request.

What is the downside to contacting the UK Consulate ?

jay
Sat, Aug 30, 2003
mailto:gofig@mac.com


    >
    > You asked if a national of United States would require a visa to Visit
    > (the) United Kingdom
    >
    > NO based upon the information provided, prior entry clearance WILL NOT
    > be required in this case.
    >
    > So no forms to complete. (No such forms exist)
    >
    > No requirement to obtain prior clearance. (No proceadure for that
    > exists either).
    >
    > Meanwhile over on uk.legal some poor guy, with no previous
    > convictions, who got drunk one night and staggered into the path of a
    > policeman on his way back to the tube station, thereby getting himself
    > arrested and charged with being "Drunk and disorderly", found himself
    > in court where the judge "Bound him over" to "Keep the peace for one
    > year" and discharged him with no fine and no prison sentence.
    >
    > Now has to cancel his forthcoming holidays in the USA because he must
    > apply for a Visa with a lead time of 6 - 8 weeks on an annual basis
    > for the rest of his life, and there is no time before his holidays.
    >
    > That is despite the fact the judge remarked he found it difficult to
    > understand why the police had pressed the case as far as prosecution
    > in the first place. In the UK his prosecution would be regarded as
    > "spent" after 12 months and to all intents and purposes would not have
    > to be declared on any forms anywhere for any purpose ever again. He
    > could just forget about it.
    >
    > Even an arrest for some trivial administrative offence such as not
    > buying a TV license (about 4000 people in jail here for just this)
    > results in ineligibility for the Visa Waiver Scheme of the USA.
    > Whereas US citizens do not require visas to enter the United Kingdom
    > period.
    >
    > DG

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
 
Old Aug 30th 2003, 8:49 pm   #5
Owain
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

"Ema Nymton" wrote
    | A friend of mine has a minor criminal record in the US. All of the
    | crimes were committed over 10 years ago, however, when recently trying
    | to visit Canada, he was denied admittance. The problem has since been
    | resolved with the Canadian authorities, but he is worried that he may
    | be prevented from vacationing in England for a week, this October. He
    | will be bringing documentation with him to England in case there is a
    | problem, but is there anything else that can be done? What is
    | England's policy on this? All of the offenses were misdemeanors, and
    | as I said they were all very long ago. But the Canada incident has us
    | worried.

Well, we allowed the boxer Mike Tyson, a convicted rapist in, although there
was a lot of controversy - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/752952.stm

The www.ukvisas.gov.uk website is the UK Government's guide and it says,
inter alia:

Q: What if I have been refused a visa for another country before?
A: Each visa application for the UK is dealt with on it's own merits, but
an entry clearance officer may wish to know why another country refused you
a visa.

From 13 November 2003, entry clearance will be required for nationals of the
following countries who intend to stay in the UK for _longer than six
months:_ ... the USA.

The website confirms that USA nationals, travelling from the USA, for
tourist/visit purposes, confirms you do not need a visa: (Do You Need A
Visa? section, database generated so can't post URL)

You asked if a national of United States needs a visa to come to the UK as a
visitor.
No, you do not need a visa.
On arrival in the UK you must satisfy an immigration officer that you
qualify for entry to the United Kingdom as a visitor. under the Immigration
Rules.
Please see Guidance - Visitors for further information. Your sponsor, if
you have one, may wish to see Guidance - Sponsors.
N.B. Even though you do not need a visa, if you have been previously
refused entry clearance for, or entry to the UK, you may wish to consider
applying for one, to find out if you qualify for entry before you travel.
Please contact Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York for further information.

For addresses see www.BritainUSA.com or

11766 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1200 Los Angeles, California 90025-6538
Telephone: (310) 481 0031 (310) 481 2900 Visa
Facsimile: (310) 481 2960 (310) 481 2961 (Visas only)

845 Third Avenue New York NY 10022
Telephone: (212) 745 0200 British Consulate-General Main Switchboard
(212) 745 0200 Consular and Visa
Facsimile: (212) 754 3062 Consular and Visa

The Wrigley Building 400 N Michigan Avenue Suite 1380 Chicago IL 60611
Telephone: (1)(312) 970 3800
Facsimile: (1)(312) 970 3852 (1)(312) 970 3854 Consular/Visa Sections only



How do I qualify to travel to the UK as a visitor?
You must be able to show that you:
- want to visit the UK for no more than six months
- plan to leave the UK at the end of your visit
- have enough money to support and accommodate yourself adequately without
working or help from public funds

The Immigration and Naturalisation Dept (IND) at www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk
has the conditions on which permission to enter may be granted or refused:

Grounds for normal refusal include:
(18) save where the Immigration Officer is satisfied that admission would
be justified for strong compassionate reasons, conviction in any country
including the United Kingdom of an offence which, if committed in the United
Kingdom, is punishable with imprisonment for a term of 12 months or any
greater punishment or, if committed outside the United Kingdom, would be so
punishable if the conduct constituting the offence had occurred in the
United Kingdom;
(19) where, from information available to the Immigration Officer, it
seems right to refuse leave to enter on the ground that exclusion from the
United Kingdom is conducive to the public good; if, for example, in the
light of the character, conduct or associations of the person seeking leave
to enter it is undesirable to give him leave to enter.

Grounds for refusal of leave to enter in relation to a person in possession
of an entry clearance, include:
321. A person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom who holds an entry
clearance which was duly issued to him and is still current may be refused
leave to enter only where the Immigration Officer is satisfied that:
(iii) refusal is justified on grounds of restricted return ability; on
medical grounds; on grounds of criminal record; ...

above from
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/def...sp?PageId=3195

It would seem prudent for your friend to contact one of the Consulates
mentioned above to discuss whether his particular circumstances are likely
to give cause for concern to the Immigration Officer at the time of arrival.

Owain
 
Old Aug 31st 2003, 9:43 am   #6
Rak
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

"Ema Nymton" <neurogenesis42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:989a18fe.0308300909.5419c7aa@posting.google.com...
    > A friend of mine has a minor criminal record in the US. All of the
    > crimes were committed over 10 years ago, however, when recently trying
    > to visit Canada, he was denied admittance. The problem has since been
    > resolved with the Canadian authorities, but he is worried that he may
    > be prevented from vacationing in England for a week, this October. He
    > will be bringing documentation with him to England in case there is a
    > problem, but is there anything else that can be done? What is
    > England's policy on this? All of the offenses were misdemeanors, and
    > as I said they were all very long ago. But the Canada incident has us
    > worried.
    > Thanks

Did you friend get a "refused entry" stamp from the Canadians in his
passport?
If so that will alert the UK immigration. A new clean apssport would then be
a good idea.

I cannot imagine that their database covers US midemeanors but I don't know
for sure.

He could call a UK Consulate in the US and ask their advice; maybe a visa in
advance is better.
 
Old Sep 1st 2003, 11:15 am   #7
Alan Thomas Harrison
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > Are you willing to guarantee this persons expenses, only knowing they
    > were misdemeanors.

"Misdemeanour" is also a concept of US law, while English law did away
with the concept of felony and misdemeanour long ago. If it wouldn't
embarrass the OP's friend too much, she might do better to indicate the
nature of the offence, since someone might know whether that offence
would cause problems.

Alan Harrison
 
Old Sep 1st 2003, 11:47 am   #8
Keith Willshaw
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visiting England - Criminal Record Problems?

"derek" <dgg@miniac.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2jt1lvojisg1t54gmi06mr0llofo53agq0@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:57:09 -0700, Go Fig <gofig@mac.com> wrote:
    > >The UK officials have, rightly so, no hesitation in sending you back
    > >from where you came.
    > >
    > >I would not go without a visa granted from a consulates office in the
    > >U.S. prior to the trip.
    > >
    > No, you are making the mistake of simply assuming we mirror the USA
    > policy on visas. We don't.
    > The UK makes no reference to criminal records, arrests, membership of
    > the communist party, naziism, anti semitism, or any of that "Moral
    > Turpitude" crap.

Incorrect


<snip>

    > Even an arrest for some trivial administrative offence such as not
    > buying a TV license (about 4000 people in jail here for just this)
    > results in ineligibility for the Visa Waiver Scheme of the USA.
    > Whereas US citizens do not require visas to enter the United Kingdom
    > period.
    > DG

This is wrong period.

The entrant must still satisfy the immigration officer that he
is eligible for entry

The grounds for refusal of entry include

"save where the Immigration Officer is satisfied that admission would be
justified for strong compassionate reasons, conviction in any country
including the United Kingdom of an offence which, if committed in the United
Kingdom, is punishable with imprisonment for a term of 12 months or any
greater punishment or, if committed outside the United Kingdom, would be so
punishable if the conduct constituting the offence had occurred in the
United Kingdom; "

Keith
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   British Expats / Usenet Groups / rec.travel.* / rec.travel.europe

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

All times are GMT. The time now is 9:27 am.


Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com