Rem72945

<< Well, Im just a lowly GS5, but my husband who is a career guy, could
probably make twice what he is now if he got out of government service >>

So could you.

People who claim otherwise have never tested their slogans by searching out the
truth.

Virtually all comparability studies (conducted by major private consultants)
over the last 25 years show Federal government salaries to be 20%-40% below
comparable jobs in the private sector.

I know about two dozen people who have recently retired or left government
service (within the last five years) and none of them are making less than they
did when they were working for the Government IF they are doing the same kind
or work and are doing it for a large concern (not a mom and pop organization).

Obviously, this doesn't apply to an accountant who retires to become a fishing
guide or a retiree who works only part time. I make double my Government salary
and I know two people who make triple. Secretaries or administrative assistants
easily make 50% more if they have the same responsibilities.

Speaking of responsibilities, try comparing numbers of people supervised and
size of budgets controlled by senior Federal executives with private sector
counterparts. NONE of them in Federal service makes over about $175,000 even
with 40,000+ employees (e.g.TSA) and billions in budget.

I live in an area with many "anti-guv'mint" people and not a single one has
ever been able to prove his/her point when I have walked them through it. It
all sounds good in the local barber shop or on a bumpersticker, but there is no
factual basis for the stupid claims many of these people make.

Note also than none of them are in line for government jobs, many of which are
going begging.

Arri London

Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > Arri London writes:
    >
    > > The banks allow 'credit' if there isn't any money in the account
    > > temporarily.
    >
    > Many banks reserve the right to debit from the count immediately,
    > instead of at the end of the month, so there must be money in the
    > account at all times.

That's true, but the overdraught is still there.
    >
    > > Yes there are charges the same as any credit card. While it
    > > might not be called revolving credit, it does work the same way.
    >
    > No, it doesn't. With revolving credit you don't have to pay for all
    > charges at the end of the month; you need only pay a portion of the
    > outstanding balance, and the remaining balance is carried (with
    > interest) to the next billing cycle.

That's hardly different from a running overdraught. The remaining
balance on a credit card carries an interest charge.
    >
    > French "credit cards" work like American Express: you pay the entire
    > balance at the end of each month. And banks typically deduct the
    > balance from your account automatically, so you never write a check (nor
    > can you choose to delay or advance payment).

But the overdraught still acts like revolving credit. Admittedly this
must be arranged in advance but that's hardly difficult.

Mxsmanic

Arri London writes:

    > That's true, but the overdraught is still there.

That's very different from revolving credit.

    > That's hardly different from a running overdraught.

It's dramatically different. It incurs no interest and does not allow
massive amounts of debt to accumulate. You can borrow no more than you
can pay off in one month.

    > But the overdraught still acts like revolving credit.

No, it's quite different. Nobody carries $40,000 debts without
revolving credit.

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Rod Speed

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Arri London writes:

    >> That's true, but the overdraught is still there.

    > That's very different from revolving credit.

Crap.

    >> That's hardly different from a running overdraught.

    > It's dramatically different.

Crap.

    > It incurs no interest

Quite a few cards vary on that particular detail, the interest free period.

    > and does not allow massive amounts of debt to accumulate.

More crap.

    > You can borrow no more than you can pay off in one month.

Pity about the automatic overdraft which is nothing like that.

    >> But the overdraught still acts like revolving credit.

    > No, it's quite different.

Crap.

    > Nobody carries $40,000 debts without revolving credit.

Wrong again. Plenty do that with an overdraft.

Richard Steiner

Here in rec.travel.air,
john <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:

    >On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:22:45 -0400, [email protected] (Richard
    >Steiner) wrote:
    >>We were also able to keep up to 12 weeks of vacation (though most of us
    >>were acquiring it at a rate of between two and four weeks per year), so
    >>people who didn't use all of their vacation for a given year could build
    >>up quite a pool. It turned out to be handy when layoffs came around.
    >Keeping 12 weeks on the books is bad for the company's bottom line.

That's probably why they changed the policy to something which wasn't
quite as nice (from our perspective).

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OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > Rod Speed wrote:
    >
    > > Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
    > > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >>Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    > >>
    > >>>Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote
    > >>>
    > >>>>Rod Speed wrote
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>>Ted Ng <ted_ng@[nospam].com> writes
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>>>>It sucks, but I see in the news that business conditions are now
    > >>>>>>>forcing Europe to cut back on the extensive social welfare system.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>>>It will never regress to the American extreme.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>>We'll see, particularly now with countrys like
    > >>>>>Turkey and Poland becoming part of the EU etc.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>Poland yes in the EU but it will be a
    > >>>>long while, if ever, before Turkey joins.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>I used the word like for a reason.
    > >
    > >
    > >>Because you couldn't be specific?
    > >
    > >
    > > Nope. Because I chose a couple of examples of countrys which *IF*
    > > they ended up in the EU, would be likely to have a significant effect
    > > on the extensive social welfare system being discussed.
    > >
    > >
    > >>Just what country is 'like' Turkey or Poland?
    > >
    > >
    > > Irrelevant question.
    >
    > You seem to consider every inconvenient question to be irrelevant.
    >
    > You said that countries like Turkey & Poland were joining the EU. A
    > response was made that it will be a long while until Turkey joins and
    > your response was that you used the word like. The only interpretation
    > I can see for your response is that there is a different country that is
    > like Turkey and that is joining the EU. I would simply like to know
    > what the country is? Or were you simply making up nonsense responses?


"Like" doesn't always mean, "similar to."

It can also mean, "such as."

As in, "countries such as Turkey and Poland becoming a
part of the EU."

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Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:11:42 +0100, The Reids
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Following up to AJC
    > >
    > >>>Europeans, stop blindly following the American model... it is not the
    > >>>utopian society it portrays itself as being.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>Don't worry, most Europeans are well aware of what life in the US is
    > >>really like. The possibility of ending up with societies like that of
    > >>the US is often used as a powerful argument against letting things
    > >>deteriorate too much.
    > >
    > >Most but not all, plenty of stupid people like Tony Blair admire
    > >the US and look there for ideas.
    >
    > Oh Tony Blair is just incomprehensible. I don't think anyone can work
    > out what he thinks he can achieve with his current policy of toadying
    > to the US.


"Free Trade" status to make imports/exports lower cost.

A cut of the cheap oil still expected from the
Afghanistan and Iraq wars.


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Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:34:07 GMT, "js" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays . Other
    > >> countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays. Plus
    > >> they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the most
    > >> productive countries in the world.
    > >>
    > >> If this is true about the US, how can the average American live under
    > >> such a system and not lose their mind???
    > >
    > >Why do you think the murder rate is so high over here? :-D
    > >
    >
    > Um, well, considering that 85 percent of the murders committed in the
    > United States are minority groups (usually unemployed minority
    > groups), killing other members of minority groups (there, was that
    > politically correct enough for you????), I would say that there isn't
    > much correlation between vacation days and murder.


However, I strongly feel that there is a major
correlation between social hostility and money-
worship/materialism/consumerism.

So many people in this world make personal happiness
into a contest, which leads to jealousy and anger. So
when someone is poor and unemployed, they may get angry
that they aren't getting all those shiny toys and piles
of cash. And their anger is discharged against
convenient targets, I.e. those near them, who are often
just as poor, and just as angry.

The principle is, "I can't lash out at the rich folks
on TeeVee, but I *can* lash out at my neighbour whom I
perceive as doing slightly better than me financially."


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Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Cardiologists will tell you that no heart patient ever says "I wish I
    > >had spent more time at the office."
    >
    > My father did. But he was convinced my mother had caused his heart
    > attack.


Very true. Some people are so dissatisfied with their
empty or negative personal lives, that they use work as
a structured, comprehensible distraction.

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Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > Lennart Petersen writes:
    >
    > > Mostly high skilled persons are allowed to emigrate from West Europe into
    > > U.S
    > > Guess there's little chance for an average bluecollar worker to get work
    > > permit for U.S
    >
    > Neither group is generally allowed to immigrate into the U.S.
    >
    > There are no restrictions on emigration in Western Europe that I'm aware
    > of (nor are there any restrictions on emigration from the U.S., and some
    > Americans do emigrate each year).


There are plenty of restrictions for departing
Americans. While the US government (like most others)
doesn't care much about those who are leaving, the
destination countries certainly *do* care, and have
requirements on who is issued work and residence
permits.


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Rod Speed

Antipodean Bucket Farmer <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] wrote
    >> js <[email protected]> wrote

    >>>> In the UK we get 4 to 5 weeks paid leave plus public holidays .
    >>>> Other countries like France get 5 to 6 weeks plus public holidays.
    >>>> Plus they only work 35 hours per week yet they are one of the
    >>>> most productive countries in the world.

    >>>> If this is true about the US, how can the average American
    >>>> live under such a system and not lose their mind???

    >>> Why do you think the murder rate is so high over here? :-D

    >> Um, well, considering that 85 percent of the murders committed in the
    >> United States are minority groups (usually unemployed minority
    >> groups), killing other members of minority groups (there, was that
    >> politically correct enough for you????), I would say that there isn't
    >> much correlation between vacation days and murder.

    > However, I strongly feel that there is a
    > major correlation between social hostility

Have fun actually defining that.

    > and money-worship/materialism/consumerism.

    > So many people in this world make personal happiness
    > into a contest, which leads to jealousy and anger. So when
    > someone is poor and unemployed, they may get angry that
    > they aren't getting all those shiny toys and piles of cash.

And they get angry about other issues too.

    > And their anger is discharged against convenient targets, I.e.
    > those near them, who are often just as poor, and just as angry.

And most of the murder rate has nothing to do
with not having the shiny toys and piles of cash.

    > The principle is, "I can't lash out at the rich folks on
    > TeeVee, but I *can* lash out at my neighbour whom
    > I perceive as doing slightly better than me financially."

And **** all murder is due to that.

Quite a bit of its actually cultural, as should
be obvious with your tattooed apes.

Rod Speed

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    >> Rod Speed wrote:
    >> > Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu>
    >> > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> >
    >> >>Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote
    >> >>
    >> >>>Frank F. Matthews <[email protected]> wrote
    >> >>>
    >> >>>>Rod Speed wrote
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>>Ted Ng <ted_ng@[nospam].com> writes
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>>>>>>It sucks, but I see in the news that business conditions are now
    >> >>>>>>>forcing Europe to cut back on the extensive social welfare system.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>>>>>It will never regress to the American extreme.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>>>>We'll see, particularly now with countrys like
    >> >>>>>Turkey and Poland becoming part of the EU etc.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>>>Poland yes in the EU but it will be a
    >> >>>>long while, if ever, before Turkey joins.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>>I used the word like for a reason.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>Because you couldn't be specific?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Nope. Because I chose a couple of examples of countrys which *IF*
    >> > they ended up in the EU, would be likely to have a significant effect
    >> > on the extensive social welfare system being discussed.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>Just what country is 'like' Turkey or Poland?
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Irrelevant question.
    >> You seem to consider every inconvenient question to be irrelevant.
    >> You said that countries like Turkey & Poland were joining the EU. A
    >> response was made that it will be a long while until Turkey joins and
    >> your response was that you used the word like. The only interpretation
    >> I can see for your response is that there is a different country that is
    >> like Turkey and that is joining the EU. I would simply like to know
    >> what the country is? Or were you simply making up nonsense responses?
    > "Like" doesn't always mean, "similar to."
    > It can also mean, "such as."
    > As in, "countries such as Turkey and Poland becoming a
    > part of the EU."

Precisely, said much better than I managed to do.

Rod Speed

Antipodean Bucket Farmer <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] says...
    >> Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>> Cardiologists will tell you that no heart patient ever
    >>> says "I wish I had spent more time at the office."

    >> My father did. But he was convinced
    >> my mother had caused his heart attack.

    > Very true. Some people are so dissatisfied with their
    > empty or negative personal lives, that they use work
    > as a structured, comprehensible distraction.

Or just a much more pleasant alternative.

Antipodean Bucket Farmer

In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
    > Rod Speed writes:
    >
    > > Crap. Deaths from cancer are comparable right thruout the first world.
    >
    > Heart disease typically leads cancer in deaths. The older the
    > population, the more significant the number of deaths from cancer, which
    > is primarily a disease of old age.


Cancer is "primarily a disease of old age" because it
takes a long time for toxins to damage the body to the
breaking point. A young person just hasn't had time to
smoke enough cigarettes to beat their lungs into
submission. Same with food (plus chronic laziness),
sun exposure, alcohol, etc.

Cancer deaths in advanced-vs-developing countries are
difficult to compare. The poorer countries may have
worse standards for public exposure to industrial
toxins, with worse quality medical care.

Heart disease doesn't tend to happen suddenly, either.
Probably just a faster (although still so often self-
inflicted) end. And poor diet doesn't automatically
follow socioeconomic conditions.


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Mxsmanic

Rod Speed writes:

    > Quite a few cards vary on that particular detail, the interest free period.

In France, the interest-free period is pretty much universal. But the
entire balance must be paid on the cycle date (and in theory, the bank
can call in the debt earlier, although it never does).

    > Pity about the automatic overdraft which is nothing like that.

French banks don't offer automatic overdrafts, as a general rule. Some
will tolerate small overdrafts with advance notice.

    > Wrong again. Plenty do that with an overdraft.

Virtually nobody racks up $40,000 in credit-card charges in one month,
and this is the only way to get $40,000 in debt with a standard French
credit card, since balances cannot be carried from month to month.

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